What's the going rate for an S4H layout?

[SteinwaysMom/DebraTope]

Just curious....

[Carinspixels]

well I dont know, I ask euro 7.50 for a flattened jpg at 12 x 12. And I do not have much costumers at all....I must admit I do not advertise like a maniac or anything. I've had 4 costumers since I started my site about 5 months ago.

[Karen B]

I've been curious about the answer, too. I'm such a slow scrapper, I don't think I'd be able to make much money an hour at all, but if I order the prints online, at least I wouldn't have to pay gas to go to work!

[~Cat~]

I am still trying to work out what I charge when I start, but, on researching, I have seen prices for flattened 12x12's going between $15-$30

[AmyPunky]

I am still trying to work out what I charge when I start, but, on researching, I have seen prices for flattened 12x12's going between $15-$30

$15-$30? Really? It looks a little bit expensive to me.
As Carin said, I think 7,5 euros ($11) is a good price.

[~Cat~]

Personally I think $30 is expensive *nods* I must say though, I came across one site that does charge that. But, I dont know about the type of client and or layout she does.

For me, I am thinking around $12 would be my charge, but, I am still putting out feelers for my part of the world, right now I am only being asked to do invites since I did my DD's invites and I am not even charging yet. I am hoping those friends will pass my info around by word of mouth ;)

[Just Plain Kristi]

Hmmm...trying to remember...been so long since I worked this all out in my head...lol. I am personally planning to evaluate the project and submit an estimate for the total...I ask for half up front and half on delivery and will have a sit-down meeting to go over proofs so I can make corrections before sending it off for printing. The estimate though is adding up a per-page base rate then adding on for extras. My basic page style rate is $12 for 12x12, $8 for 8x8, $6 for 4x6...etc. I like MPT's new 10x10 size so at $10/page, a 20 page album will be $200 to start. The extras include choosing the book binding and cover, adding a custom font, and if they want extras like extractions, story-writing, photo restoration, etc. and those are billed at $20/hour.

I've been so focused on getting my classes produced and going I haven't touched my S4H stuff in a while...I need to dust it off though and get my stuff together for this wedding album I may get to do. Gotta finish that contract too!

Kristi

[SteinwaysMom/DebraTope]

I was just curious because it seems like a good layout takes at least 2 hours or more and even at $15 an hour which is cheap for graphic design work, that would be $30...but I can see that a lot of clients wouldn't be able to afford more than $10-15...

I'm just thinking of creative teams and all that - if someone gets a $7 kit for free in exchange for a LO that's $20+ worth of work but I supposed it's offset by the fact that the person might have bought the products anyway to do personal layouts...

[bellajoy]

For just one single custom 12x12, rates are as mentioned by other posters above $10-$30 per page, although there are some S4O designers that charge even more than $30 per page. The prices are usually a little less incrementally for smaller size layouts.

My design fee (for one single 12x12) is a little less than $30 per page, and that includes printing (but not shipping). Since I usually have the pages printed and shipped to myself first and THEN I ship to a customer, I have the cost of shipping to myself to factor in as well. (I like to proof an item before shipping or delivering to a customer).

If I am doing multiple pages, (like in an album or bound book), the price goes down quite a bit per page. This is because I can save costs with printing and with shipping.

For those who find the costs expensive - I understand. I personally wouldn't pay my own prices. :-) BUT, that's because I know how to digi-scrap, I have a huge stash of supplies that I've already purchased, and I can make my own pages. For folks who don't know how, and don't have the time or patience to learn how, the price seems completely reasonable.

And now that I've rambled on far beyond the actual question... I'll hush! Hope this is helpful!

[bellajoy]

Debra, you are right about the hourly rate being low. As a S4O designer, I work for extremely "cheap", compared to others in graphic design. For some reason, because the digi-scrap industry is considered a "hobby", and is put in the "arts and crafts" category, people expect the prices to be cheaper. The up-side for me is that most digital designers from whom I purchase my supplies have reasonable commercial licenses or no fees at all, which helps tremendously. Without that, it'd be hard to make a go of being a S4O designer.

And, as a side note, I actually lost a corporate customer once, in part I think because my prices were too LOW. If I don't value my work enough to charge a good price, then how can I expect my customers to value it either? That happened to me as a web designer too, until I learned my lesson and increased my prices. It was far easier to increase my prices as web designer - I don't see that happening as a S4O designer.

Boy, I'm talkative today... need to go get busy on some projects already! :-)

[Just Plain Kristi]

I was just curious because it seems like a good layout takes at least 2 hours or more and even at $15 an hour which is cheap for graphic design work, that would be $30...but I can see that a lot of clients wouldn't be able to afford more than $10-15...

I'm just thinking of creative teams and all that - if someone gets a $7 kit for free in exchange for a LO that's $20+ worth of work but I supposed it's offset by the fact that the person might have bought the products anyway to do personal layouts...

Ummm...I tried to balance the time investment with the affordability of my market. I also said my rate was for a basic page style...things that require a lot more time will cost extra. That said, I do most pages...basic style ones... in 30-40 minutes (on average for 12x12.) I'm set up to make $20/hour which is my minimum rate for tutoring or any other freelance work. That means my goal is to complete 3-4 4x6's per hour, 2-3 medium sized layouts per hour, and to average 40 minutes or so per 12x12. I'm a little too fuzzy headed right now to do the math but the goal is to average $20/hour and I based my pricing after timing myself doing different sized layouts.

Our most precious resource, and the most expensive part of doing digi scrapping, is our time. The supplies aren't terribly expensive, the printing can be but I add that to the labor estimate. When someone balks at my price my plan B is to offer to teach them to do this for themselves...I love to teach! So after adding up the cost of software, the supplies, the printing, and the classes...and add to that the time commitment to learn the software and design principles...they start to understand why I charge what I do. If they had the time or inclination to do this for themselves they wouldn't be asking for an estimate from me to start with...lol! Either way though I get my $20/hour. At least that's how it works on paper...lol! I'm excited to get the opportunity to try this out on a real life client.

Kristi

[andyapc]

After five years, I recently closed my custom design business simply because of lack of time. However, I had a pretty successful five year run so I can tell you what my pricing structure was - don't know if this will help or not? This is off the top of my head because my site is no longer up and I don't have my pricing books in front of me at the moment.

I made a clear distinction between an individual collage and a book. I placed a higher value on the individual collage because I sold more of them and they were much more involved in terms of brush work and photo manipulation. My books were simpler, although I occasionally threw in a brushed/artsy/funky page every now and then.

What I didn't do is multiply my individual collage price by twenty to come up with a book price. That's because of what I said above ... I placed a higher value on the individual collage and I didn't want to lower the perception of value by simply multiplying it twenty times.

My individual collages started at $55 for an 8 x 10. They went upwards of $200+, depending on size and medium it was printed on ... paper, tile, canvas, etc.

I think my 8x8 books started at $300 - maybe? That was for a very simple, basic book and options would make the price go higher. For my top of the line book, with twenty pages ... I think it was $600+??

I found it very frustrating to see so many price their products so low. Perception of value is incredibly important and I know that if I was out pricing for whatever, I would be wary of anything that was priced so dirt cheap. I wouldn't automatically go for the higher item either as high-priced doesn't necessarily mean better quality, but the perception that it does is there and that would get me interested in finding out more.

I had said countless times that when I started my business, I knew that I did not want to be the WalMart or Target in this field ... I would not do any style at any price to get a job (and I was lucky enough to be in a position to do just that. If my business had to be the sole breadwinner, I would have been singing a different tune, at least at the beginning.) My goal was for people to hire me for my distinctive style and that style came at a certain price. Essentially, they were paying for my name as well as the product.

You have to figure out who you want your target market to be. As one woman put it so aptly years ago (I wish I could remember her name), do you want your hair cut by Oprah's hair stylist or do you want it cut by SuperCuts?

If your surrounding area won't tolerate the pricing structure that you're going after, then you have two choices ... lower your prices so that fall within the acceptable price range for your area, or seek your target market elsewhere, online. I started off my business mostly locally but other than one or two surrounding weathly counties (neither of which I reside in), most of my surrounding area wasn't going to pay my prices and in the end, most of my jobs were coming from online, out-of-state, from pretty wealthy communities. They found out about me from a friend of a friend of a friend ... etc. It amazed me how my name got out there.

I hope this helps a little?

[OrianaVianey]

Well, I live in Latin America and things have to be cheaper, but the very few projects I've made I charge $35 for a single collage (plus printing) and $150 for a 8x8 Photobook.

[cindydoerksen]

well I dont know, I ask euro 7.50 for a flattened jpg at 12 x 12. And I do not have much costumers at all....I must admit I do not advertise like a maniac or anything. I've had 4 costumers since I started my site about 5 months ago.


Your gallery is amazing and I think your layouts would be well worth what you are charging.

[Carinspixels]

Your gallery is amazing and I think your layouts would be well worth what you are charging.

ahwww thank you Cindy, now let's hope there's costumers coming my way thinking the same hahahahaha

[mcardall]

I would think that $15 to $30 per layout would be a good price. My 12x12s start at $35 with printing. A 12x12 ALBUM including printing and a leather album is $400 for 20 pages. I have to admit, I haven't really been pushing this side of my business much.

A pp said that they thought this was probably too expensive, but if you think about every single aspect of what you are charging for, I'd say $15 is WAY low! I am including the cost of a new kit for every page, about $7 right there. And if you have to buy a license, it usually jumps to $10. PLUS, printing is $3 at the cheapest. Gas to go get the prints. Sheet protectors are about $0.50 each. Plus if I print at Costco, I have to trim my prints. I change my trimmer blade for every new project so I don't get jagged edges for my clients (I use the older blades for my stuff!). If I were charging $15 for a 12x12 layout, I would only be making $4 AT THE MOST! I have two little girls, so if my clients have boys or if they want a heritage album, I have to buy new supplies. If they want a specific look I will probably end up paying more for a kit. And included in my hourly rate I had to figure in my time searching for the perfect kit, downloading, unzipping, tagging in ACDSee, SCRAPPING, uploading to Costco, driving to and from Costco, driving to the craft store to get sheet protectors and albums, trimming the layouts, placing the layouts in the album, wrapping & packaging the album, driving to UPS to have a custom box made for my project and shipped. It's all the same stuff everyone does for their own stuff, but I don't think that people realize all the work that goes into creating an ALBUM! Especially if you are working on your own one page at a time.

[bellajoy]

Meredith - you said it SO well. And honestly, when you take ALL of that into consideration, even $35 is too low! :-)

[Just Plain Kristi]

I haven't done the math on the price per page yet on my price structure since I have my base price then I add the printing, supplies, etc. on top of that...once I get a full album completed and paid for I can break that down and see what it ended up per page. Good points Meredith!

Kristi

[Cassel]

I am in the planning of a large project where i would do a souvenir book for a tourist attraction. I am planning to create all the elements myself, since i can do just that, and have also an exclusive product for that customer. If you were to make a book, creating all the elements, how would that change the pricing? Any suggestion? BAnyone has been in a similar situation?

[digigal]

I would think that $15 to $30 per layout would be a good price. My 12x12s start at $35 with printing. A 12x12 ALBUM including printing and a leather album is $400 for 20 pages. I have to admit, I haven't really been pushing this side of my business much.

A pp said that they thought this was probably too expensive, but if you think about every single aspect of what you are charging for, I'd say $15 is WAY low! I am including the cost of a new kit for every page, about $7 right there. And if you have to buy a license, it usually jumps to $10. PLUS, printing is $3 at the cheapest. Gas to go get the prints. Sheet protectors are about $0.50 each. Plus if I print at Costco, I have to trim my prints. I change my trimmer blade for every new project so I don't get jagged edges for my clients (I use the older blades for my stuff!). If I were charging $15 for a 12x12 layout, I would only be making $4 AT THE MOST! I have two little girls, so if my clients have boys or if they want a heritage album, I have to buy new supplies. If they want a specific look I will probably end up paying more for a kit. And included in my hourly rate I had to figure in my time searching for the perfect kit, downloading, unzipping, tagging in ACDSee, SCRAPPING, uploading to Costco, driving to and from Costco, driving to the craft store to get sheet protectors and albums, trimming the layouts, placing the layouts in the album, wrapping & packaging the album, driving to UPS to have a custom box made for my project and shipped. It's all the same stuff everyone does for their own stuff, but I don't think that people realize all the work that goes into creating an ALBUM! Especially if you are working on your own one page at a time.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
$15- $30 is what I'm looking at also. Postage, cost of kit/licensing fees, transportation to/from post office/ AND don't forget the cost of software, Photoshop, Lightroom, Scott Kelby Books, and online courses, we're talking a few thousand dollars here not including all the time iinvested in learning. Andy and Meredith have great points here!

[bellajoy]

Cassel, how many pages will the book be? What size will the book be? Will you be JUST designing and giving them the design to print themselves? Those details would factor into my pricing.

[thirtytinytoes]

I know I've had some people ask me IRL what i would charge, and honestly i dont even know that I could do it. I certainly wouldn't pay 10$ + for somebody to make me a page so I would feel bad charging anybody that much...

[Cassel]

Cassel, how many pages will the book be? What size will the book be? Will you be JUST designing and giving them the design to print themselves? Those details would factor into my pricing.

At this point, i think the book might go around 50 pages or so. I am thinking of designing and helping them get it printed. I already had one scrapbook printed at 7000 copies through work and i know where to go and how much they charge for 1000, 2000, 3000, 5000 and 7000 copies of the style i did (11 x 8.5, full color, bound with two screws so users can add pages, pocket inside the cover, thick cardboard cover, etc.) Can you believe that it cost less than $4 a copy to get those 7000 copies?

So basically, i am starting by making a sampler of what a few pages could look like, i will bring a copy of my other one (to show the overall look), and then, get myself a couple of options: either charge a flat rate for the design and that is all, or charge for the design and ask for a % of each sale, or any other options that i can think of. Then i will go see the owner and discuss business!

So, if anyone has been in similar situation, any hint could help.

[mcardall]

Let me say something in this thread. Although my official prices start at $35 for a single printed 12x12, there are exceptions to my pricing. If a friend or family member asks me to make a page, and they don't mind me using whatever S4H stuff I already have and they want to print it themselves, I don't mind charging $7-12 per layout. And I have found that family members, especially parents, are a wonderful resource! So I make them little albums all the time. I have on paying client who only pages me to design her pages and prints them herself. So she pays $20 a page. There are always ways to work your price to fit the need of the client. But don't undervalue yourself. If you do, you'll burn out. You'll end up feeling like you are working for nothing, because you are! I learned that very quickly when I was making and selling paper cards. People just didn't realize how much time/effort went into it! I love Kaylaugh's idea. If people balk at the price, just ask them if they want you to teach them.

At the risk of offending people, I am going to say a few things that I learned QUICKLY! You need to realistically set prices and expect to get paid that $$. If you have a problem charging clients or asking for your money, you aren't going to last long and be successful. This is a business and you better treat it like one. You can always do favors for friends and family and charity. But be sure that your family & friends & even charities KNOW what the value of their gift is. I am re-doing my sister-in-law's blog. She can't afford to pay me to do her blog. But I still told her, "I normally charge $55 for what you want done to your blog, but I'll do it for you for free in exchange for advertising and some babysitting." When I told her that, she was totally fine with it because she does daycare for kids and if I want her to watch my kids during the day, she charges me a specific rate per child. Anyway, long way of saying... be realistic. And don't apologize. If you do, you won't make it or you'll burn out QUICK!

[digigal]

"Amen!"

[Just Plain Kristi]

Amen Sistah! lol.

Meredith is totally right. I have done some pages to help out a friend doing a PTA album. Since I can't use those pages for promotional stuff (privacy issues) I'm recording the value of the work as a tax write-off (I didn't have to print them so I'll price them at my base price...labor only.)

My mom actually hired me to design her logo for her sewing business and she paid me for that work. (She also carries a photo purse to advertise for me and I wear things she's sewn to help advertise for her.)

The point is, I totally agree with standing firm on your work's value...even if it's in trade for someone else's labor.

Kristi

[TracerM]

Thanks to all of you for being so open and honest in this thread. I am finding it very helpful!

[~Cat~]

Meredith, your insight has been helpful. I guess I was looking at $30 for a page bing expensive because I would never have thought that my work was worth that much. (hmm, that doesnt make sense :lol) What I am saying is that I do value my work and my pages. Sometimes I can churn out a page within 15mins (my minimal pages) And others can take me 2 days. I never thought of breaking down my time, the product, the printing (Which I will be doing via my BIL's business) and, the shipping. And, I never in a million years thought off adding my gas to that!!!

Now reading between the lines $30 seems more than fair (works out at around £22), and if I wasnt a scrapper I think I would pay that!! At the end of the day its a unique/personalized item you are providing the client.

Thank you for being very open about this its been very helpful :)

[bellajoy]

It's already been said, but thank you Meredith! You always say all the things I'm thinking, but you say it so much better than I could. :-)

I often do work for less than my advertised price. I take personal exceptions when I feel like it's the right thing to do, depending on the situation, just like Meredith mentioned. In fact, I recently did an entire photo book for just a little more than the printing costs, because I knew the customer has a lot of contacts, plans to order again (and she knows my prices), and will be bringing me plenty of business in the future. She consistently orders 8x10's from me as gifts for family members, and now that she has discovered the photo book concept, well, the sky is the limit. So, to do her first book for free? It was a great trade-off for me to get the ball rolling. I delivered it to her, and she promptly ordered two more books.

Now, would I do that regularly with everyone? No, because that would be foolish and I'd end up like Meredith mentioned - burned out and working for nothing. But, this time, instead of spending money on advertising, I spent 12 hours on her book. That 12 hours has already paid off.

I think one of the most difficult things about running any small or work-from-home business, and especially an artistic one like designing for others, is the fact that you have to wear so MANY hats. You are not only chief designer, but you are the advertising department, the billing department, the boss AND the underling - and everything else in between. If I had my druthers, I'd just design all day long, and let someone else handle the rest of it (and my sales tax forms might get mailed in on time more often if I did!) It can be daunting to take on ALL the aspects that come with running a business, and even after over 10 years in business, I struggle with certain parts of my "job".

[Albums to Remember]

Wow, great thread. I have found this all very helpful. I am just getting started. I have been wanting to start and a friend called me up and asked me if I would do an album for her. She said she was willing to pay $100. I took the job. I have spent over 30 hours creating her album (32 pages) but I did it because it gave me a great start. An actual job where I could see how long pages took, what was all involved, etc. She was my guinea pig......and I made some cash out of it. Would I do another album for $100..no way! But, this gave me a great start and I know she will most likely return for another and show this one to friends and family.

My sister is already on my back to get my business started so she can advertise to all her friends. So, again I will give her a discount (being family!:)) But, I will get a ton of advertising from it.

Still not sure what I will charge, but this all has been really helpful. I don't want to work for less then $10/hr but would prefer $15 or $20, not sure if this area could handle that though. I don't want to burn out or feel taken advantage of though. Thanks for pointing that out. Lots to think about........

[Rose Thorn]

This thread has been most informative! Thank you Debra Tope for starting it and thank you to everyone who shared their thoughts and experiences!

I've been thinking of trying my hand at doing some S4H but didn't have a clue how to go about starting - the info in this thread gives me a bit of a start at thinking about it. I've a question about obtaining photos though, any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

That question is basically, how do you obtain the photos from your clients? Do you scan them yourselves? And if so, what do you charge for that? If not, if you obtain digitals, how do you deal with the poor quality and/or low resolution photos?

Thanks so much!

[sunnie2004]

If I may add my 2 cents worth here..

Tis is all so informative & thanks for starting the thread & all the input here!!

Now with that said ..please dont sell your self short ladies..If you go to the grocery store you buy the prices they have for their product.
If you see a print ...reprinted a gazillon times & you just love it..it is worth 30 bucks or more because you love it.
If you go to the mechanic & he charges 60 bucks a hour you are getting (hopefully) his or hers expertise...the cost of his tools....his time..his up keep on his building ..& all the other stuff that goes with owing a business. If you are scrappin for a business why would anyones work be worth any less.than a mechanic ...a laborer...bus boy..door man....delivery driver ..you get the point. Don't underestimate you knowledge ..expertise...& creative arts. WE all are worth what ever price tag we put on our art.

Best of luck ladies!!

[~Cat~]

This thread has been most informative! Thank you Debra Tope for starting it and thank you to everyone who shared their thoughts and experiences!

I've been thinking of trying my hand at doing some S4H but didn't have a clue how to go about starting - the info in this thread gives me a bit of a start at thinking about it. I've a question about obtaining photos though, any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

That question is basically, how do you obtain the photos from your clients? Do you scan them yourselves? And if so, what do you charge for that? If not, if you obtain digitals, how do you deal with the poor quality and/or low resolution photos?

Thanks so much!

My clients have 2 options in sending me pictures.

1st option will be to email me the full resolution picture by using a filesharing service such as you send it, or, if they compress and zip up the file and directly email.

2nd option, they can send me the picture by 'snail mail' if there is no option to scan and I will scan the picture myself. Then upload the picture on a disc which they will also receive with my 'compliments' the only thing they would pay for would be shipping costs.

As for poor quality photos, I will try and fix it up as much as I can on my software. I am partnered with my BIL who owns a printing firm. If the photograph is in really poor quality he will use his software to fix it up as much as possible, and there will be a charge for that dependent on the quality.

[Hypermommy]

I just want to thank everyone for such wonderful information in this thread. When I started to figure out my prices I did some online research. I found some sites and their prices. But then again, I couldn't really tell if they were actually getting that price or just asking it. Having read all this information from you ladies that I know are actually in the business has been quite valuable.

I have a slightly different question ... and if there's a different thread on this please let me know. I'd like to know where/how you advertise. I know word of mouth is going to be my best advertisement but until I get that critical mass going (which I'm trying to do by offering stuff to my family and friends and offering stuff at silent auctions for charities) where else can I get the word out about my services?

Thanks again for all the valuable info!!!

[~Cat~]

Well my website only went live this week, I am finally entering into the business of www.

How I did my advertising foremost, was by S4O, making gift pages for framing and party invitations for friends, basically RAKs if you like. Then through word of mouth by friends and family people have started coming to me on a business level.

I then advertised my services in local press, some of our press do free advertising and others were for a small fee. Also, supermarkets have classified boards only charging pennies to place your add up.

Now that I have launched my website (which you can have a peek here www.yourmemorieslive.com)

I have advertised my S4H services through scrapjazz (http://www.scrapjazz.com/links/Shopping/Services/Scrapper_for_Hire/) its free to list your site there, which I have done for now, how effective it will be I dont know. You can also pay for a premium listing which will list your site in the top pages, but right now I am going to play it by ear.

Also, for my site, I have registered it with Google websmaster and allowing my site to have search crawlers coming in, again, I am playing it by ear to see how much traffic and interest I will get before I consider going on a premium service with google.

Advertising is the key to a successful business and its the hardest part with getting yourself out there so starting with word of mouth and getting yourself known in local area is IMO a big start :)

[Sexy__Eyes]

I just want to thank everyone for such wonderful information in this thread. When I started to figure out my prices I did some online research. I found some sites and their prices. But then again, I couldn't really tell if they were actually getting that price or just asking it. Having read all this information from you ladies that I know are actually in the business has been quite valuable.

I have a slightly different question ... and if there's a different thread on this please let me know. I'd like to know where/how you advertise. I know word of mouth is going to be my best advertisement but until I get that critical mass going (which I'm trying to do by offering stuff to my family and friends and offering stuff at silent auctions for charities) where else can I get the word out about my services?

Thanks again for all the valuable info!!!

I have advertised on the internet with no results. This past month I have paid for booth in our towns annual craft fair. The fair draws about 10,000 people. While I didnt sell anything I did get 1 order and spread my name out all over the county. I passed out business cards and free pens with my companys name, phone # and website. Out of thousands of people that stopped to look only 3 people said they had heard of digital scrapbooking. I have a spot in another show scheduled next month in another town, one in Sept. and 2 more for Oct and Nov. These other shows I was invited to participate in personally by people who were walking around during the 1st fair. They were impressed with my work and hand picked me for their fairs. If I dont sell thats ok...at least Im getting my name out there. This past show I raffled off an 8x8 album, next show Im raffling off a framed layout of that towns scenery.
I also went into our local (small) paper scrap store and spoke to the owner. She agreed to display one of my layouts AND let me leave some business cards.
Next I went to the local printers where I got my business cards made and left some with him.

As for pricing...my layouts go for $18.00 for 12x12 for the first 10 layouts ordered and $16.00 for any layouts after the inital 10. I also include a basic album at no charge. I do all my own printing. The client also recieves all their layouts on a CD at no charge. If the photos are not digital there is a small fee for scanning...2 cents a photo. If the quality is not great I try to fix it at no charge with my own program. If it still isnt good I will tell the client I can do the layout but the quality wont be as good as it should and leave it up to them.

I hope this helps a bit.

[Just Plain Kristi]

My mom has a sewing/quilting/embroidery business and we're considering sharing booth space at some local craft fairs that are regular monthly gigs...but not until it's cooler out! I am looking at bringing a laptop and printer and some supplies to do hybrid projects there at the fair like clocks, tumblers, and photo cubes. I also hope to get my name out there and business cards. If patrons don't have pics with them but know I'll be back the next month they can bring a flash drive or memory card and buy then or email me...still working on ideas.

Kristi

[Hypermommy]

I hope this helps a bit.

Yes, it's all very helpful. I think the local craft fair might be a good idea. We have something downtown here every Saturday morning. I might just do this when it gets cooler.

So you print the stuff right there for folks?

Someone else I've been talking to stays away from the printing becuase then she'd have to charge sales tax. The way she does it (without printing) she says it's a service and doesn't have to pay sales tax.

Just trying to figure out what's the best way to go.

And thanks to all for all the advice posted here.

[SteinwaysMom/DebraTope]

Shoot, if digiscrapping were primarily male they'd be charging $50 a page.

My friend used to nanny for wealthy people and they were always finding ways to nickel and dime her - a lot of people have money, they just don't want to spend it if they can get away with it....

[sunnie2004]

Shoot, if digiscrapping were primarily male they'd be charging $50 a page.

My friend used to nanny for wealthy people and they were always finding ways to nickel and dime her - a lot of people have money, they just don't want to spend it if they can get away with it....


I agree completely!!

[Just Plain Kristi]

So you print the stuff right there for folks?

Someone else I've been talking to stays away from the printing becuase then she'd have to charge sales tax. The way she does it (without printing) she says it's a service and doesn't have to pay sales tax.

That depends on your state. In Texas, scrap for hire falls under the category of commissioned artwork and is a taxable service so I'm charging tax anyway. The clocks are $3.77 at walmart and I think I can safely charge $25 a piece for them...the CD cases for the photo cubes end up costing under $2 per cube plus a little more for cardstock and ribbon for the base...for that kind of markup I have no problem printing on the spot. And if someone looks like they want to learn to DIY my products they can sign up for classes! Just about everyone has pictures on their phones, small P&S cameras, even flash drives stashed in their purses. I just need to find air conditioned craft fairs or wait for fall...I don't handle the heat at all. So this is all theory until I actually get a chance to sell and see how my pricing holds up. HTH!

Kristi

[Hypermommy]

My friend used to nanny for wealthy people and they were always finding ways to nickel and dime her - a lot of people have money, they just don't want to spend it if they can get away with it....

Guess that's why they have money and I don't :lol

[Stacey99]

This thread is SO helpful! I've been lurking over here for a couple of months, trying to gain some insight. I do have a project waiting for me to start....it's a 12X12 album for my friend's mother. She provided the album, and a CD of photos. It's all karate themed and I have no idea what her photos look like since I haven't loaded her CD yet. My son and her grandson take karate together, so I have a good sense of what she's looking for, whew.

Since I have wide format printer, I plan to print myself.....yes, ink is expensive and so it the epson matte photo paper but will find a way to incorporate it into my pricing. Aside from having a better sense of what to charge from this thread (thank you), does anyone else print at home and what paper do you use?

Thanks!:)

[amykant]

what a great thread! Thank you all for your information!

[VanessaF]

This side of the scrapping business really intrigues me. I love to make my own paper, embies etc, but I cannot see myself churning out endless kits etc in what is essentially a saturated market. I love scrapping other peoples photos and have been researching like crazy but it would seem that the UK is far behind the rest of the world again when it comes to custom scrapping and I cannot find many listings on the web for UK based S4H. Those that I have come across are primarily conventional paper based scrappers and come under really obscure search terminology. There has to be a market out there, and I will crack it.

Apart from Catriona are there any other UK based scrappers trying to break into the S4O business? Any advice would be most welcome.

[~Cat~]

Vanessa, someone has to start it ;) The same as someone had to break into paper scrapping as a business, so why cant it be you?

I am from way up in the Highlands and even traditional scrapbooking isnt heard of, scrapbooking to the highlanders are just random pictures glued into a book with no emblies etc.

Like Krista, I am booked at 2 craft fairs and will be going along with my laptop and printer and working as I am there. I will also have examples of various size layouts in frames, albums and calendars on show. Its mainly about marketing yourself and IMO there is a market out there its just getting yourself known.

For me I have spent a year researching, but as you say the UK is behind, so I just had to bite the bullet, if it works out for me then great, if not, I tried and I will keep trying.

Another thing I could suggest Vanessa, if you havent already done so, is S4O's at the moment, you know make pages for friends and family, make invitations etc. Ok you are not earning anything from it, and, you are also spending the money, but you need to spend before you can earn. This is how I initially got started, making invitations for my kids parties, and then friends asking me if I would do their kids and it kind of snowballed from there. Its all about taking the baby steps but it will pay off ;)

Feel free to keep in touch with me, I am more than happy to help you :)

[Hypermommy]

Thanks for the list of what you take to craft fairs! I think I'll hit some of those.

[VanessaF]

Mmm good food for thought Cat, thank you. I think I need to get busy putting a portfolio together, as I am just exploring the craft fair side of things at the moment.

Thanks for the input.

[Ella]

Great thread! will read more later too

[momofthecrazy4]

Thanks everyone I've really enjoyed reading up on this topic

[CheleOh]

I was approached by 3 different co-workers today to do work for them (2 high school graduation announcements and one baby shower invite).

I've been charging in margaritas, but I guess I need to start taking money before I become a drunk. :D

Thank you for some good insights!

Chele :)

[my4boys]

I made 2 albums for a very good friend's parents for their 50th anniversary and the family cruise they took. By the time I was done it was over 100 pages and A LOT of time. I refused to take any money from them because they have done so much for me in the past and I felt good about that. They did pay for the printing of the pages so I did not have to deal with that part of it either. If I would have charged them it would have easily been well over $1,000.00 though!!! I would say at least $15 each page because I did not use a lot of embellishments, mostly paper and frames and a alpha or two. If I would have really done them up I would have easily charged $30 a page, no problem!!! YOUR time is worth money no matter how fancy the page is, that is the way I feel about it and I am sticking to my story!!!!

[Grant&LaurensMom]

This thread has been so very helpful. Thank you everyone! There's a lot to think about. Friends keep telling me I should scrap for hire, I just need a push to get started! It's that first step that's hard for me. AND ... figuring out a price to charge is tough.

I've got a blog/gallery where I post all of my layouts to share w/ family & friends. I'm thinking that since I'll probably start scrapping - at least initially - for friends, should I direct them to my blog so they can see my style? Or, would you suggest I keep a smaller gallery with just a few themed layouts on it so it's easier to maneuver around?

It seems like I do such different stuff - depending my what I'm creating for - that the full gallery might be a better indicator for people what kind of style work I do. But then again ... maybe I should make something more themed.

I'm rambling so I'll stop now. If you'd like to check out my blog and give me any thoughts, that would be great!

www.barbaraunzen.blogspot.com (http://www.barbaraunzen.blogspot.com)

[Marcie]

Wow thanks for all the information. This is definitely giving me food for thoughts. I'm currently doing an ablum for my sister in law and I'm just charing her printing costs. She in turn is going to show it around and hopefully get me some clients. So I'm trying to figure out my pricing. I have another friend who was interested too. I have printed out 2 albums for myself of my children so they have seen those and love them. Now I don't have the ability to print here so all my printing would be outsourced. I have a place to do my albums and they also do single pages but I have to do at least 20 single pages at a time. The area I'm living is in a slight depression right now and people are really not buying anything. I too was working in the 15 to 30 dollar range. I was thinking of doing 18 for a 12 x 12 page and droping it for the 8x 8 or 10 x 8 album. I'm probably a bit low but I'm just not sure that local people would be able to aford me and I'm not on a website yet. Of course there would be printing charges, shipping, sales tax added to each one.

My husband also needs a brochure for stuff he does, which I'm doing for free. THe upside is he is spreading it around and it will have my name on it for the layout. I also read Scrap Diva's contract and I really liked the wording so if it's okay I may borrow it?

I'm curious though do you find that more people prefer the books or the single pages?

THanks,
Marcie

[Scrap Diva Designs]

You may absolutely use my wording! I was able to find ideas from others as well. :)

I have found that most people I know prefer the books. It just depends on what they are wanting. The "coffee table" book is really in right now, but you can't add to it later. Some people like to keep an ongoing traditional scrapbook. It really just depends. Sometimes, the one page at a time or a few layouts at a time can save people some $$$.

What print services have you looked at? Not everyone insists on 20 pgs at a time.

[Marcie]

Thanks Emily. I was looking at printing from Viovio. I have 1 10 x 10 hardbound book, 1 8 x 8 hardbound book, and 1 8 x 8 softbound book from them. The quality is great and so is the pricing. I also liked that I could set up an account that I can upload their layouts password protected for them to proof prior to printing. They will be unable to view anyone elses for their own privacy. I thought that might be easier for me in the end and then they do not have to come to me to see them. Especially if they are from out of town. I was going to look around for pricing if someone came to me and only wanted a few done at a time. I may also check with the printing company to see if there are others who wanted theirs printing and maybe we could combine them. I'd love for you to proof my work to see if it is at worth it.

[Scrap Diva Designs]

When I have clients proof their layouts, I email them a low res (non printable) file with a slightly transparent brush of company's name over a picture in the layout. This way, the print wouldn't be great quality and my company name is in an obvious/annoying place. Once they approve and check for spelling, etc, I then have it printed. If you email them "proofs", you don't have to see them in person so having out of town clients isn't an issue.

I mainly use WHCC for printing. Their prices are reasonable, the quality is amazing, and shipping is included in their price. Their customer service is great too. They currently do not do 12x12 book printing so I am shopping around for that. I have tried shutterfly. They do offer 12x12 single prints though.

I would love to look at your work, but I am sure you are qualified.

[Marcie]

Cna I post a link here?

[Marcie]

When I have clients proof their layouts, I email them a low res (non printable) file with a slightly transparent brush of company's name over a picture in the layout. This way, the print wouldn't be great quality and my company name is in an obvious/annoying place. Once they approve and check for spelling, etc, I then have it printed. If you email them "proofs", you don't have to see them in person so having out of town clients isn't an issue.

I mainly use WHCC for printing. Their prices are reasonable, the quality is amazing, and shipping is included in their price. Their customer service is great too. They currently do not do 12x12 book printing so I am shopping around for that. I have tried shutterfly. They do offer 12x12 single prints though.

I would love to look at your work, but I am sure you are qualified.


What is WHCC? Have you looked at Viovio at all? They have the same quality as shutterfly, but not even half the cost. at 12 x12 hardbound book is 14.99 + .75 a page min of 20 pages. So 14.99 + 15.00 about $30 for a 20 page book. plus of course shipping/handling. Pretty decent.

[Marcie]

Here you are

http://www.digitaldesignden.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=222&sl=m

[Scrap Diva Designs]

Your layouts look great!

[Marcie]

Thanks Emily. You've been a big help. I wrote up my terms and pricing last night. I've got one more question. In your pricing is the printing added in? Or is it an additional amount?

[Marcie]

Thanks Emily. You've been a big help. I wrote up my terms and pricing last night. I've got one more question. In your pricing is the printing added in? Or is it an additional amount?

[Scrap Diva Designs]

Everything but shipping is added in. Shipping from the printer (if ordering from someone other that WHCC) to me is added in, paypal expenses, labor, printing, sheet protectors (if needed), albums (if needed), and envelopes (if needed) are added in. I don't want my clients to feel they are getting nickeled and dimed by extra expenses.

Here's the link to whcc's prices.
http://www.whcc.com/uploads/pdf/WHCC_2009_Pricing_Guide_0109.pdf

Their main site is whcc.com

I promise they are not as intimidated as they look. It really is very simple to set up an account and order.

The price link I posted goes into effect 1/17/09.

[Marcie]

Thanks. Guess I need to figure out the book prices for each and add that in. Gosh my head is really starting to hurt! Still need to find a place for the loose pages so that I don't have the minuman page thing.

[pookie]

$15-$30? Really? It looks a little bit expensive to me.
As Carin said, I think 7,5 euros ($11) is a good price.

I charge 15.00 a page, if they want me to make an album then the price goes down with every page I do.

I did an album once sold if for $500.00
people will pay if they like your style.

Pookie

[biograffiti]

Do you ever have the completed books shipped direct to the client or do you receive them first to review and then send on? I plan to use WHCC and MyPicTales for my printing options and I am hesitant about having the final product shipped direct without my "quality control" review.

[Marcie]

Emily, thanks for all your help. I do believe my terms/pricing is all figure out now. I really appreciate all you did for me.

Sunshine...I'm planning on having it come to me just because of a printers error. I would hate for the client to get it and all the colors are off or something like that. I'd want to know it was perfect when I sent it to them.

[digigal]

Do you ever have the completed books shipped direct to the client or do you receive them first to review and then send on? I plan to use WHCC and MyPicTales for my printing options and I am hesitant about having the final product shipped direct without my "quality control" review.

This is what I have a question on (for out of town). I feel I want it shipped to me first for proofing, but then I would have to REship to the customer. Do you charge once and absorb the second charge, or charge for (both) shipping charges?

[Krash]

This is what I have a question on (for out of town). I feel I want it shipped to me first for proofing, but then I would have to REship to the customer. Do you charge once and absorb the second charge, or charge for (both) shipping charges?

I make sure the shipping charge is added in with MY total price to the customer. I'm doing more of a "freelance" pricing structure. I've got my pricing set up as "starting at $xx" depending on the type of design and complexity however I also offer a $10 shipping to anywhere in the US. I'm not the average S4H though..more of a "art from your photo" designer person LOL! Anyway this type of shipping/pricing is so far working for me! I HAVE to proof myself before I send it on it's way to the customer:)

[digigal]

Thanks, Martha, and wow, what a website you have! Outstanding! Gorgeous work! (I love playing with lineart (and the history brush) also and just ran into a book at the library showing different ways of producing lineart using PSE) Thanks for your reply :)

[mcardall]

I would definitely definitely DEFINITELY proof the printed pages BEFORE you send them to your client. There have been too many stories of wrong prints sent, pages printed incorrectly, edges cut off, colors too saturated, not saturated enough, pages sharpened too much by the printer, etc for me to EVER let the page get into the client's hands before I saw it if I am the one responsible for the printing.

IF you are going to use MyPicTales (personally, they aren't my favorite), they do offer a S4H rate. That discount may cover your shipping costs. And US Priority Mail is about $5 for a 12x12 box. My prices don't include shipping. If you are looking for an amazing printer with amazing prices, check out ScrappingSimply (http://www.scrappingsimply.com). Their prices are a bit more than MyPicTales, but they are much cheaper than ScrapbookPictures or even Costco... and they are a TON better than any of those places.

[Krash]

Thanks, Martha, and wow, what a website you have! Outstanding! Gorgeous work! (I love playing with lineart (and the history brush) also and just ran into a book at the library showing different ways of producing lineart using PSE) Thanks for your reply :)

Thanks!! The site is still a work in progress:lol I'm just soo darned picky!! Anyway thanks again:) Oh and definitely I agree with Meridith! PROOF yourself for sure no matter what you have to do for the price of shipping both ways. Will save lots of "uh-oh's" not to mention your reputation!

I would definitely definitely DEFINITELY proof the printed pages BEFORE you send them to your client. There have been too many stories of wrong prints sent, pages printed incorrectly, edges cut off, colors too saturated, not saturated enough, pages sharpened too much by the printer, etc for me to EVER let the page get into the client's hands before I saw it if I am the one responsible for the printing.

IF you are going to use MyPicTales (personally, they aren't my favorite), they do offer a S4H rate. That discount may cover your shipping costs. And US Priority Mail is about $5 for a 12x12 box. My prices don't include shipping. If you are looking for an amazing printer with amazing prices, check out ScrappingSimply (http://www.scrappingsimply.com). Their prices are a bit more than MyPicTales, but they are much cheaper than ScrapbookPictures or even Costco... and they are a TON better than any of those places.

OHHH!! Cool! Thanks for the link Meridith! I'm using WHCC but the prices on their cards are a tad steep! I've been hunting for a quality printer that has a few different paper finishes for cards comparable to WHCC but slightly more reasonable. Off to check out your link and keep my fingers crossed on the card choices!

[mcardall]

Martha, I heard that Scrapping Simply will be getting a new card printing/folding machine in the next month or two. And they have many many many more options than what their website says. Give them a call and Rex or Chari can give you more details.

[bellajoy]

Jumping in to say, thanks Meredith for the info! I have been feeling the same way as Martha about the whcc card pricing, so I'm glad to hear there may soon be another alternative. Off to check em out!

[digigal]

Thanks, Meredith, I'll have to check out Scrapping Simply. I've always liked Scrapbookpictures and their shipping is $2.00, but SS is a bit cheaper on their pictures.

[SBrentnall]

I always proof my books before sending them to a client, unless the deadline is particularly tight. For example, a had a client at Christmas who came to me very late and I had to kill myself to get her books done. There was no time to have the books shipped to me and then on to her, so I took a chance and had them shipped straight to her. Of course, I explained this to her and she was just grateful I could get them done in time.

Regarding shipping, I pay for having the books shipped from the printer to me, but i charge the client for shipping from my place to hers. I don't do a flat fee because different clients need their books at different times.

[Marcie]

I'm enjoying rereading all the input here on the shipping. Since this is something I'm just starting out on, I was unsure myself how to figure in shipping. I too have the books come to me and then the client pays for shipping from me to her. So for now I'm paying for the shipping to me. Once I get a better feel, I may incorprate it into the fee. not sure yet.