The Bailout goes to the House

[Mom2aTrio (JZDesigns)]

700B...I sure could have found a better use for it :shrug

Here is the link to the USAToday story (http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2008-09-28-bailout-deal_N.htm)

And the Proposed Plan (http://i.usatoday.net/news/pdf/bailoutproposal.pdf)

[Chreamps]

All I can say is God help us all and who are we going to bail out next?

[missys_bits]

You know, I really like that email floating around suggesting that we should divide the money between each american adult. LOL This is terrible!

[onescrappymom]

Sadly I feel like we had to do *something* but I am not convinced this was the answer. :(

[Sara Ellis]

please spare 10 minutes of your time and watch this video about the bailout...

Watch this.....it takes a little while...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5tZc8oH--o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5tZc8oH--o)

[Haley64]

Great video and I sure pressed pause a lot to stop and read all the print on the pages, not just the highlighted stuff he showed us.

This is a honest question as I don't really get how it all went so bad. As I read it, CRA was established in congress in 1977 (Jimmy Carter era?) to offer equal access to lending to the low income and as it said on one of those clips people of color. (IMHO this had to be done to help out the low income back in the 70's so it makes sense to me and instead of just building more low income apartments for them to rent. It was a chance for them to finally OWN..right? And I bet there are hundreds of thousands that are and were thankful for that right!)

All of this is found at minute marker 1:01 in that video if you stop it and read the whole clipping along with activist contributing to the demands over banks excluding the poor and colored (using their words, not mine) from using their financial banking institutions. So would this have fallen under discrimination back then and still to this day? I bet it did and still would. If there is a pattern of discrimination towards a certain sect. of people it is called discrimination whether it is because they didn't have their financial affairs in order or not to have honestly qualified for a normal loan.
ahh found the actual clipping (http://www.city-journal.org/html/10_1_the_trillion_dollar.html) for this part and how it happened.
Then acted on again by Clinton in 1995 who from what I can gather decided that is wasn't covering enough of the low income and others and possibly added to the list those that had bad credit (IMHO this should never of been allowed as people in need).

Ok then something else is taking place in the last 10+ years and it seems that banks are starting to be sued by big companies for not making or giving enough loans to people and small businesses? right?

Actually this whole site (http://city-journal.org/author_index.php?author=92) is quite interesting reading since it talks about how this whole mess comes into being.

So my take on this is the BIG dogs abused and pressured us into this.
More people then the first ones taken into consideration (low income) were also given more then what they should have been allowed (middle class) and they got it easily because of the greedy Big Dogs.
So actually the people that this was all started for, to help them out of poverty, are not the one who did this but it was 90% everyone above the low-income intended that created this mess.
Both republican's and democrat's are responsible for knowing about this and not stepping up and yelling from the roof tops to get this turned around or stopped before it got this far.
We AGAIN as a nation were lied to and lead like sheep to slaughter by wolves under the guise of our leaders and elected officials!
That does it I am not voting for either of these parties, it is so wrong! And like I read on another site, MacCain should be the one we are mad at for choosing a running mate that doesn't have what it is going to take. We shouldn't be mad at Palin, she should have "Just said NO!" when asked to run for VP realizing herself, that she is out of her league!

Here is a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&feature=related) showing that while the democrats pushed for this it also shows the republicans bowing out of pushing forward in their investigations.

I know I am shutting up now and going to bed :)

[Cherie Shields]

A series of poor decisions were made and now the poop has hit the fan.
Something had to be done and this has worldwide reprecussions.
If this fails it won't just be the USA that falls hard - think dominoes.

[Gina.Maria]

Yeah, but there are some countries in Europe that can weather any "poop-storm" we brew up because they invest conservatively and don't rely as much on credit. Germany probably wouldn't feel more than a small "speed-bump" if the U.S. economy collapsed (already confirmed by the Finance Minister.) We could take a lesson from a country that values people over profit and has worked hard to establish a stable economy.

[amyu]

IMO bailing out the mortgage industry isn't the answer. If fuel prices weren't out of control, EVERYTHING besides mortgage payments would not have skyrocketed in the past few years. The fact that people have to spend so much more on everything from transportation to food/consumer goods is a big part of the reason they can't afford their mortgage payments. So if the gov't wants to spend $700B, they'd do us a lot more good if they'd figure out how to use that $700B to fix the fuel crisis.

[Kim2002]

please spare 10 minutes of your time and watch this video about the bailout...Watch this.....it takes a little while...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5tZc8oH--o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5tZc8oH--o)

Wow, that was quite a lot of information. I had to keep pausing it to read the articles, and Google stuff. WOW.

[Chreamps]

Jon Stewart (http://www.thedailyshow.com/) does it again - better to laugh than cry, I guess.

[kjbstevens]

Okay so I've watched a ton of news about all of this and those clips but here is what puzzles me. What has happened is there is less money to lend out because of people not paying bills and they have all of this land and assets they can't sell. Why is it such a great idea to keep letting them loan out more if that was the problem? I get that things won't grow as much but maybe it's something saying hey slow down we grew to fast. I just don't get how this is a good idea because there is a chance they'll end up just with more land and assets they can't sell. I guess that they why they are the ones getting paid to take care of this. I'll say congrats and all if they fix it but really I don't have much faith in it. The fact Wall St has dropped 300 points at this point this morning isn't helping that either. I guess all we can do is hope since they seem so happy to spend our money on this even though most of them don't even like it. All of this just makes me want to be a hermit.

[Mom2aTrio (JZDesigns)]

You know, I really like that email floating around suggesting that we should divide the money between each american adult. LOL This is terrible!

Nice idea but then inflation would sky rocket

[Mom2aTrio (JZDesigns)]

A series of poor decisions were made and now the poop has hit the fan.
Something had to be done and this has worldwide reprecussions.
If this fails it won't just be the USA that falls hard - think dominoes.

I agree but then again I do not think the bailout was the answer....I personally do not feel it is up to the american taxpayers to fix the errors of these companies
look how the stock market has reacted today thus far
http://markets.usatoday.net/custom/usatoday-com/fp-mktindex-quote.gifquote
This was something they were hoping to avoid :mad

[Mom2aTrio (JZDesigns)]

Great video and I sure pressed pause a lot to stop and read all the print on the pages, not just the highlighted stuff he showed us.

This is a honest question as I don't really get how it all went so bad. As I read it, CRA was established in congress in 1977 (Jimmy Carter era?) to offer equal access to lending to the low income and as it said on one of those clips people of color. (IMHO this had to be done to help out the low income back in the 70's so it makes sense to me and instead of just building more low income apartments for them to rent. It was a chance for them to finally OWN..right? And I bet there are hundreds of thousands that are and were thankful for that right!)

All of this is found at minute marker 1:01 in that video if you stop it and read the whole clipping along with activist contributing to the demands over banks excluding the poor and colored (using their words, not mine) from using their financial banking institutions. So would this have fallen under discrimination back then and still to this day? I bet it did and still would. If there is a pattern of discrimination towards a certain sect. of people it is called discrimination whether it is because they didn't have their financial affairs in order or not to have honestly qualified for a normal loan.
ahh found the actual clipping (http://www.city-journal.org/html/10_1_the_trillion_dollar.html) for this part and how it happened.
Then acted on again by Clinton in 1995 who from what I can gather decided that is wasn't covering enough of the low income and others and possibly added to the list those that had bad credit (IMHO this should never of been allowed as people in need).

Ok then something else is taking place in the last 10+ years and it seems that banks are starting to be sued by big companies for not making or giving enough loans to people and small businesses? right?

Actually this whole site (http://city-journal.org/author_index.php?author=92) is quite interesting reading since it talks about how this whole mess comes into being.

So my take on this is the BIG dogs abused and pressured us into this.
More people then the first ones taken into consideration (low income) were also given more then what they should have been allowed (middle class) and they got it easily because of the greedy Big Dogs.
So actually the people that this was all started for, to help them out of poverty, are not the one who did this but it was 90% everyone above the low-income intended that created this mess.
Both republican's and democrat's are responsible for knowing about this and not stepping up and yelling from the roof tops to get this turned around or stopped before it got this far.
We AGAIN as a nation were lied to and lead like sheep to slaughter by wolves under the guise of our leaders and elected officials!
That does it I am not voting for either of these parties, it is so wrong! And like I read on another site, MacCain should be the one we are mad at for choosing a running mate that doesn't have what it is going to take. We shouldn't be mad at Palin, she should have "Just said NO!" when asked to run for VP realizing herself, that she is out of her league!

Here is a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&feature=related) showing that while the democrats pushed for this it also shows the republicans bowing out of pushing forward in their investigations.

I know I am shutting up now and going to bed :)

Yea the CRA helped start the crisis...when the government says you HAVE to loan to those in low income areas or else (freeze assets, will not let you expand business) it creates a problem that you feel you must do the loan.....

[FrenchRuby]

There are a number of problems that will be caused by the lack of lending funds.

First, the easy credit days are over. Not a bad thing in itself, but the short term repercussions will be severe. Less retail spending, less purchasing of cars and consumer goods, leads to less jobs which leads to less retail spending and so on ad infitinum.

The slow down in the consumer economy also pushes state spending up to cope with the increasing number of unemployed who have lost their jobs as shop assistants, customer service clerks, gas pump attendants, cinema ticket booth operators, etc etc etc. The tax income is lower because the number of people working falls, and so the national debt increases and with it the interest payable on the debt. So taxes have to rise, which reduces the amount of spending money in the economy and around we go again.

Businesses cannot borrow to finance research, development, training, investment in plant. Hence new products slow on their way to market and the market stagnates. As the current system is absolutely based on redundancy being built into consumer goods (if you haven't seen the Story of Stuff, Google for it, it may help explain), a lack of new product coming to market will reduce consumer spending further. Another round of paragraph 1 ensues.

The sum effect of these things is to depress the economy. Without the promise (or even likelihood) of profits and growth, speculation on the share markets comes to a standstill. Nobody is buying, many want to sell to get their money into gilts and government bonds which will pay a small but guaranteed return and are a safe bet in a volatile economy. But who to sell to when everyone wants out? Markets fall.

Since practically ALL pension funds and savings plans are tied to the markets, people's retirement funds (and for those already retired, their income) drop sharply. In some cases, where annuities are paying out guaranteed sums which can now longer be covered by stock market gains, pension fund companies will fold and retirees will lose their pensions altogether. Once more around with the no spending = more benefits payable = less tax coming in = bigger debt = higher taxes = more businesses go under = more unemployment.... cycle.

Here endeth Economics 101 :)

[Haley64]

Lord this is just such a screwed up mess!
Just for the record I am not part of the problem, I didn't help created it by borrowing 1 red penny! And I reallly, realllllllly don't want to help bail out those large companies/government agencies that did!
Anyone have a nice little farm for sale in Norway? :) Single hardworking mother with two well behaved kids ready to move! LOL

[April Staker]

IMO bailing out the mortgage industry isn't the answer. If fuel prices weren't out of control, EVERYTHING besides mortgage payments would not have skyrocketed in the past few years. The fact that people have to spend so much more on everything from transportation to food/consumer goods is a big part of the reason they can't afford their mortgage payments. So if the gov't wants to spend $700B, they'd do us a lot more good if they'd figure out how to use that $700B to fix the fuel crisis.

ITA! Thank you!

[Gina.Maria]

Okay so I've watched a ton of news about all of this and those clips but here is what puzzles me. What has happened is there is less money to lend out because of people not paying bills and they have all of this land and assets they can't sell. Why is it such a great idea to keep letting them loan out more if that was the problem? I get that things won't grow as much but maybe it's something saying hey slow down we grew to fast. I just don't get how this is a good idea because there is a chance they'll end up just with more land and assets they can't sell. I guess that they why they are the ones getting paid to take care of this. I'll say congrats and all if they fix it but really I don't have much faith in it. The fact Wall St has dropped 300 points at this point this morning isn't helping that either. I guess all we can do is hope since they seem so happy to spend our money on this even though most of them don't even like it. All of this just makes me want to be a hermit.

I think this is one area where we probably all agree. Unfortunately, our government and big business (the one's who really have the ears of our representatives) can't envision a world where we actually pay for things with cash, save our money and practice delayed gratification.

Personally, I think we could have extended FHA insurance coverage for all that bad debt and made it a valuable asset that could again be sold at market value. Some of the loans would eventually be repaid and some would not but our government (we, the taxpayers) would only be on the hook for the defaulted loans.

[Barb Speck]

Without the bailout I have a feeling we will see the 2nd worst depression ever experienced in America. The stock market was waiting for word to see how the day will end. Credit should be tightened up...they should have done that a long time ago. I remember when my son started college. He got a credit card application in the mail every day. I never had a credit card until I was 25 and had a job to pay for it and it had a very low amount allowed. Today my credit cards have -0- balances but we probably paid off credit cards several times before finally saying this is rediculous. If we can't afford something then we don't buy it.

Do I want the bailout heck yeah!! I have our retirement riding on it. We would like to be able to retire in 7 years but if our funds go bye bye then it isn't going to happen. Our mortgage company just got bought out by Chase. Chase and Bank of America will have a monopoly by the time this is all over but obviously they made wise decisions unlike many other banks now going under.

[kjbstevens]

So it doesn't look like it's going to pass and everything is dropping even more. What do you all think is going to happen next?

[JCSimon]

So it doesn't look like it's going to pass and everything is dropping even more. What do you all think is going to happen next?

I think that, like Barb Speck said, we'll have to revise our plans to retire in 7 years......I sat and *watched* our pension fund drop by over half this morning. Plus, if credit dries up completely, it will mean large companies unable to meet payroll. Wait and see how many people are either laid off or working for free in the next couple of months.

[chslynn]

Personally, I think we could have extended FHA insurance coverage for all that bad debt and made it a valuable asset that could again be sold at market value. Some of the loans would eventually be repaid and some would not but our government (we, the taxpayers) would only be on the hook for the defaulted loans.

I agree with you on this. This is one of the things that Dave Ramsey was trying to get people to write their representatives and senators about, because many of those loans will not be defaulted on... why assume that they all will be?

[pewtertm]

It didn't pass the House, according to the Yahoo headline.

[AKSheridan]

My dad just lost $30,000 in the stock market this morning. :eek

This is baaaaad.

[FrenchRuby]

I really hope this is just a 'protest vote' in Congress and they will push it through maybe tomorrow. I'm watching the markets falling, and it is not pretty. Thank goodness I am already broke so I don't stand to lose anything like a house or a savings plan, but I am seriously thinking I need to go buy vegetable seed and a couple chickens in the next few days if the bill doesn't pass (and maybe even if it does). I'm not joking either.

[Gina.Maria]

I really hope this is just a 'protest vote' in Congress and they will push it through maybe tomorrow. I'm watching the markets falling, and it is not pretty. Thank goodness I am already broke so I don't stand to lose anything like a house or a savings plan, but I am seriously thinking I need to go buy vegetable seed and a couple chickens in the next few days if the bill doesn't pass (and maybe even if it does). I'm not joking either.

Sadly, zoning laws in many neighborhoods in the U.S. prohibit keeping live poultry. If things get as bad as that, I hope enforcement of laws like that gets suspended.

[cheribear]

I really hope this is just a 'protest vote' in Congress and they will push it through maybe tomorrow. I'm watching the markets falling, and it is not pretty. Thank goodness I am already broke so I don't stand to lose anything like a house or a savings plan, but I am seriously thinking I need to go buy vegetable seed and a couple chickens in the next few days if the bill doesn't pass (and maybe even if it does). I'm not joking either.

I'm hearing that this cannot be resolved until Thursday at the latest - because of the holiday tomorrow we'll be in limbo for a few days. Hopefully as each day passes and things get worse, they'll be more determined to reach a solution when they get back on Wed.

[Chreamps]

Makes me think my husband will never be able to retire - I may not even open the 401K statement next month - if there is anything left for there to be a statement on.:(:(

[4noisyboys]

Makes me think my husband will never be able to retire - I may not even open the 401K statement next month - if there is anything left for there to be a statement on.:(:(

I haven't opened any of them up. I just don't want to know...

[kjbstevens]

I really hope this is just a 'protest vote' in Congress and they will push it through maybe tomorrow. I'm watching the markets falling, and it is not pretty. Thank goodness I am already broke so I don't stand to lose anything like a house or a savings plan, but I am seriously thinking I need to go buy vegetable seed and a couple chickens in the next few days if the bill doesn't pass (and maybe even if it does). I'm not joking either.

Yeah doubt it's going to happen. There are far to many Americans that don't like the plan and to many people up for re-election for it to change that much overnight. Chickens are pretty cool. We are chicken farmers as well as a good amount of the agricultural people around here. We tried the garden this year. We aren't that great at that. I put the squash to close to the cucumbers. They all came out short and yellow. I'm not cut out for veggies so we're going to be in trouble. :lol

[Hollie]

Well, maybe there is one good thing...

There have been so many people coming out against the bailout--at least we can say that congress is carrying out the will of the people. That's what they are supposed to do, right?

[alb52]

If fuel prices weren't out of control, EVERYTHING besides mortgage payments would not have skyrocketed in the past few years. The fact that people have to spend so much more on everything from transportation to food/consumer goods is a big part of the reason they can't afford their mortgage payments.

maybe it's more because people who really SHOULDN'T have had mortgages in the first place got them? additionally, can't blame everything on fuel prices - people can control their own spending...or they should!!!?

[Scorpiosue1102]

The stocks are dropping like a stone thrown in water. Very scary. -777 right now.

[Kim2002]

I'm glad our legislators listened to the people for a change. I'll be glued to the various news sources to keep abreast of how things continue to transpire over the coming days.

[pewtertm]

I don't know what I think about this entire mess, other than just that...it is a MESS.

For those who want to see how things broke down today, here's the link to the list of who voted for what:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml

[Scorpiosue1102]

Suze Orman is on CNN right now. Does not look good for short term investments. She also said that if something is done soon we could see another 2,000 off of the market. She also said this could last from 4 years to up to 2015.

[phenomshel]

I can definitely see the worst case scenario here. I just started school. If we go into a second Great Depression, I won't get to continue, the federal loan funds won't be there. Same for my DH, who is in the third year of a Bachelor's Degree. My husband's company is based in England, but if our economy collapses, they may pull out. I'm a cashier at the moment. If the company closes this store, I'm out of a job, with limited prospects on getting another one. I'm not liking the looks of this one bit.
I'm not sure the bailout is/was the answer, but it is AN answer....and some sort of answer at this point is desperately needed quickly!!

[lorig]

What I have read of the bailout it is only going to delay the pain. I would like to see something that limits the pain but doesn't delay it. Not sure what that answer may be though I respect Dave Ramsey's opinion so his idea might help. I also respect Suze Orman, hopefully people are starting to listen to the advice that will help each individual.

[Scorpiosue1102]

I think our main problem is that we don't have time to delay. The time it may take to make it easier on our tax dollars will just hurt our investments. Somehow, some way we're going to, unfortunately, pay for this.

I am not even going to go into the cry baby partisan attitude on Capitol Hill. The blame game on both sides needs to STOP. That just ticks me off to no end. I say we get rid of all of them and start anew.

[Helen]

According to CNN - the value of peope's pensions, retirement accounts, 401Ks and stock lost 1.2 TRILLION dollars today.

If people don't have pensions, retirement accounts, 401Ks and stock - then others will feel this when payrolls are not met because all businesses can not use their account credits to pay the salaries and pay the bills. because they all do that while they are waiting to get paid from their sales, etc. and people will feel it when they can't use their credit cards to make purchases of anykind - gas, food, clothes, etc. Credit limits on credit cards will get eliminated and/or reduced and people will not be able to purchase anything based on credit.

the alternative is economics 101 - like it or not - wall street is linked to 'main street' via jobs, salaries, health care, utilities, etc.

So looks like we have to get prepared to hunker down whereever we are - and hope that people who are up for re-election in November will come back and vote for what's best for the people - or like Barb said - we are closing in on our second depression - read the history books - the signs are all there.

sad but true - and getting angry about those who caused the problem - is not going to make this problem go away. Tough pill to swallow - but the alternative - 1.2 trillion dollars less value, frozen credit accounts, and lost jobs is not going to be easy on anyone.

Who cares who started the fire - we just need to put it out - and not let continue to burn. otherwise - after one house burns down - another house (bank or business) burns down - and then the whole block is up in flames.

some people may think we can't have another depression like we had in the 30s - but it took several years after the stock market crashed in 1929 - before the country really started feeling the pain of no jobs - no cash flow - etc - the real depression didn't start overnight with the stock market crash in '29 - it wasn't until 1931 and '32 before people really felt it and then it was too late. then it took almost a decade to turn it around.

nobody likes greed or bad investments or golden parachutes for big ceos - and hopefully the fbi will punish those who contributed to this - BUT in the meantime - we have an economy linked to wall street and to ignore the problem - even though it is a tough pill to swallow - is not going to make it go away.

people should stop worrying if they are going to get re-elected and do what's right for the country and to heck with who is to blame. we have a 'cancer' growing' in our country - and we have to take the medicine - or it will just keep spreading. yes, we can hate the people who caused the 'cancer' or we can swallow the medicine and move on and put checks into place so it doesn't happen again. i hate 'cancers' but i will glady take the medicine if it means we don't have a depression. and based on history and economics 101 - I believe the economists.

we lost 1.2 trillion dollars today, market suffered largest day loss -777 since the depression, people's pensions and retirements are out the window, jobs are getting cut, payrolls are not being met, and sales are down everywhere, banks are failing, and credit flows are drying up - what else has to happen before people realize that some kind of medicine is required - or this 'cancer' is just going to keep spreading. i don't care who caused it - we can fix blame later - let's fix the problem at hand now before it's too late.

[nlbremer]

I don't think this had anything to do with them listening to the people. On the news they just said that Pelosi gave a partisan speech right before the vote and about a dozen repubs switched their vote because of her speech.

Also, I don't think the gas prices are to blame for not making mortgage payments. Our budgets should not be so tight that gas prices impact us to that extent. Our problem is that in this country the majority of people live paycheck to paycheck and rely on credit too much. If we had savings, this would not be the issue it is. I know it's easier said than done, but that's the truth of it. If buying a house gets you that close on your budget, you need to either buy a cheaper house or downsize somewhere else.

[Scorpiosue1102]

I don't think this had anything to do with them listening to the people. On the news they just said that Pelosi gave a partisan speech right before the vote and about a dozen repubs switched their vote because of her speech.



Totally agree. I could not believe that. We are in probably the worst economic crisis ever and representatives didn't vote because of her speech.

[saxon]

Telling people to downsize and buy a cheaper house in this climate is a joke. We currently own a home that we have not been able to sell for nearly a year now - it isn't overpriced like you might think... it's simply a smaller house in a community that is more rural. We have had it on the market and dropped our price by 50k since listing it (this drop was AFTER they told us it was at market value) We've owned this house now for 7 years, and we bought it when we were stationed in WA. Now, we have moved 2x since then (thanks Air Force) and still haven't been able to sell. This puts us in constant flux with paying 2 mortgages...

Add two crowns to my head in the last month, and that takes a HIT on even the most fiscally in-tact household.

I agree that I don't want to bail out any big-time ceos, but I will do what is necessary to keep the economy going - and since I don't know what that is I have to trust that others do. If the bail-out helps, then go for it!

[pewtertm]

On the news they just said that Pelosi gave a partisan speech right before the vote and about a dozen repubs switched their vote because of her speech.

I read that someone had made that statement, and if people really did change their vote because of Pelosi, then they are babies who aren't strong enough to be in leadership IMO.

However, I also heard one republican congressperson say that the didn't vote for the bill because it was so rushed that he (and others) didn't have time to look at the entirety of the bill. Given Washington's penchant for tacking on pork, I can sort of see his point.

Still another congressperson said that alot of the voting came down to pure politics...people wanting it to pass, but wanting OTHERS to vote for it, because they didn't want to risk voting for something that is considered unpopular. So some are more worried about staying in office than doing what they think is right...again, if that is the case, then they shouldn't be in office anyway IMO.

All of this reinforces my opinion that we need term limits on Congress...although they are not about to set limits on themselves.

[Stephanie Ogren]

All of this reinforces my opinion that we need term limits on Congress...although they are not about to set limits on themselves.

Oh yes! The president has a term limit, so should Congress.

[nlbremer]

Telling people to downsize and buy a cheaper house in this climate is a joke. We currently own a home that we have not been able to sell for nearly a year now - it isn't overpriced like you might think... it's simply a smaller house in a community that is more rural. We have had it on the market and dropped our price by 50k since listing it (this drop was AFTER they told us it was at market value) We've owned this house now for 7 years, and we bought it when we were stationed in WA. Now, we have moved 2x since then (thanks Air Force) and still haven't been able to sell. This puts us in constant flux with paying 2 mortgages...

Add two crowns to my head in the last month, and that takes a HIT on even the most fiscally in-tact household.

I agree that I don't want to bail out any big-time ceos, but I will do what is necessary to keep the economy going - and since I don't know what that is I have to trust that others do. If the bail-out helps, then go for it!

I wasn't talking about everyone. I was talking about the folks who were already on the cusp--in response to the gas prices pushing people over the edge. Your situation is entirely different. The military dictates where and when for you--and you are on the unfortunate end of this situation.

[saxon]

Thanks for the clarification - it does hit me though that I am currently on the cusp - by no fault of my own (that I can see) and I wonder just how many others are in the same boat because of similar circumstances... it just stinks. We have college funds for the girls that we have struggled to pay into each month, and to think they could all go away really upsets and scares me. :(

[Microferk ~ Miki Ferkul]

I am wondering how the public is going to feel when their pensions, 401Ks, and stocks crash, and their employers close shop with no credit lines to pay their payrolls, accounts payable, because their customers aren't paying their accounts receivable, etc. ?
I've heard from far too many people (all over, not here necessarily) who think that just because they don't play the stock market or contribute to their 401Ks , and think that this doesn't affect them. A lot of people think this is just the big guys' money at stake. Nuh uh- they got their stuff out a long time ago folks, it's OUR money at stake this time.

[kjbstevens]

I heard what Pelosi said and it was pure nastiness. That couldn't have been the only thing though. There were still 95 democrats that didn't vote for it that she hadn't insulted. Shouldn't she have known this beforehand and tried to do more if she really wanted it to pass?

[Scorpiosue1102]

Rep. Eric Cantor from Virginia said on air that the reason why some people did not vote for it was "this" holding up her speech. If that is the case...shame on them. Almost all financial persons I've seen on TV have said that we have to pass something. The market lost $1.2 trillion and the bailout was $700 billion which is a heck of a lot less than what we all lost today (i.e. 401k, IRA, etc.). I'd really like to not lose anymore money before Congress decides to stop playing politics.

[nlbremer]

Yeah, I think we know Bush's legacy is trashed...I just didn't think it was the time or place for her (Pelosi) to do that. This is about each and every American citizen...not repub vs dem at all.

[SteinwaysMom/DebraTope]

I really believe that this whole 'emergency' was purposely engineered in an attempt to get 700 billion 'no strings attached' dollars to play with. I'm not buying it.

[kjbstevens]

I really believe that this whole 'emergency' was purposely engineered in an attempt to get 700 billion 'no strings attached' dollars to play with. I'm not buying it.
I agree that I think this was Bush's plan and I'm a pretty hardcore Republican. This week he's done this and had troops shooting into Pakistan. It's not really cool and like he is just demoralized from all of the bashing from everything all around. His approval rating has been like 10 points higher than congress's unless something just recent has come out that I missed. Listening to them won't get you any brownie points with the people. :shrug

[corina]

I am wondering how the public is going to feel when their pensions, 401Ks, and stocks crash, and their employers close shop with no credit lines to pay their payrolls, accounts payable, because their customers aren't paying their accounts receivable, etc. ?
I've heard from far too many people (all over, not here necessarily) who think that just because they don't play the stock market or contribute to their 401Ks , and think that this doesn't affect them. A lot of people think this is just the big guys' money at stake. Nuh uh- they got their stuff out a long time ago folks, it's OUR money at stake this time.

well said sweetie... a lot of people might not be directly tied to the big guys, but in some way we ALL are and when they "fall", we will all feel the ripples in one way or another. Lots more people will lose their jobs, lose their homes, wont be able to pay for stuff, wont be able to get things like cars, student loans, etc. It may not have been the best plan on the table and Im sure there were holes in it, obviously, but hopefully they get something in again this week that can and will pass. They need to get their heads out of the politcal asses and start to think about everyone else and not their own agenda's and careers. I lost a lot of money today and I cant stomach another big hit! I'd rather pay XX amount today, rather than XXXX tomorrow kwim? Im hoping and praying for another plan to be on the table this week!

Bleh, speaking of stomach, mine still feels ill :(

[lunafaerie]

You know, since when has Pelosi said anything that anyone liked? Goodness, she's my rep and I can't stand half of what she says, but she has a right to say it. Every single person on that floor got to get up there and rant and rave and say their piece and she has to just suck it up and not say a word? If they voted down the bill only because Pelosi was being herself, then they need to get out of Washington and get over themselves.

[Thena]

We worked hard all of our lives to get to this point and retire and we are watching our retirement fall everyday. It will affect us all one way or another.

[scribler]

I don't think this had anything to do with them listening to the people. On the news they just said that Pelosi gave a partisan speech right before the vote and about a dozen repubs switched their vote because of her speech.

Then shame on both Pelosi and those reps who switched sides. This vote was not the moment for partisan bickering. That being said, even the Republicans admit she only lost them about 12 votes and even with those 12 votes, the bill would not have passed. Both sides need to get over themselves and do what is best for this country and they need to do it now. That bill should have passed yesterday. (If you go over to CNN.com, you can see for yourself how your rep voted. I am happy to say that my rep voted in favor of the bill.)

[Microferk ~ Miki Ferkul]

I sit and nod my head at each one of your posts. Politic over the campaigns- and do that later- but pull together and work on this crisis NOW- like the European banks are doing.

[4noisyboys]

You know, since when has Pelosi said anything that anyone liked? Goodness, she's my rep and I can't stand half of what she says, but she has a right to say it. Every single person on that floor got to get up there and rant and rave and say their piece and she has to just suck it up and not say a word? If they voted down the bill only because Pelosi was being herself, then they need to get out of Washington and get over themselves.

OMG....I totally agree! How childish is that to not vote for something because of what Pelosi said!

[Gina.Maria]

I can definitely see the worst case scenario here. I just started school. If we go into a second Great Depression, I won't get to continue, the federal loan funds won't be there. Same for my DH, who is in the third year of a Bachelor's Degree. My husband's company is based in England, but if our economy collapses, they may pull out. I'm a cashier at the moment. If the company closes this store, I'm out of a job, with limited prospects on getting another one. I'm not liking the looks of this one bit.
I'm not sure the bailout is/was the answer, but it is AN answer....and some sort of answer at this point is desperately needed quickly!!

Switch from bank-funded student loans to Federal Direct Student Loans. You'll skip the middle-man and deal directly with the Deprtment of Education's Loan Servicer. In my last retiree newsletter (my career before moving to Germany was in Student Financial Aid) the news was that the William D. Ford Federal Direct Loan program was still funding loans.

[4noisyboys]

If you have the time, click on this link and watch what Karl Dennigen has to say about the bailout! Very interesting!!!

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/594-MAKE-THIS-VIRAL-STOP-THE-BAILOUT!-SAVE-AMERICA!.html

I'd be interested in hearing what you think about it once you do!

[Gina.Maria]

I heard what Pelosi said and it was pure nastiness. That couldn't have been the only thing though. There were still 95 democrats that didn't vote for it that she hadn't insulted. Shouldn't she have known this beforehand and tried to do more if she really wanted it to pass?

The agreed-upon plan that leaders from both parties had constructed was that it would pass with a narrow margin and be split equally between Republicans and Democrats. One problem was that it seems Republicans weren't polled ahead of time and it was assumed that they'd throw their vote in the "Yea" column because it was a measure that had come directly from the Administration. Now Republicans are crying foul because some Democrats voted against the measure. Essentially, each party wants to avoid being blamed for this bail-out if it eventually fails, so they're trying to apply the "blame" equally.

Childish, yes, but if we're to have support and cooperation for our government which is essentially a 2-party unit, this is the only way they can see to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lunafaerie http://www.digishoptalk.com/boards/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.digishoptalk.com/boards/showthread.php?p=1498289#post1498289)
You know, since when has Pelosi said anything that anyone liked? Goodness, she's my rep and I can't stand half of what she says, but she has a right to say it. Every single person on that floor got to get up there and rant and rave and say their piece and she has to just suck it up and not say a word? If they voted down the bill only because Pelosi was being herself, then they need to get out of Washington and get over themselves.

I agree with this, too. I think the statements by the Republicans were cheap shots when you look at how they voted.

[kjbstevens]

Yeah the Direct Loan people seem to be really lax in giving money as long as you go to a decently priced school. They are not going to give you the money to cover a private school or an expensive school. Most instate public university systems which are much, much cheaper they will cover the entire amount.

[daly]

If you have the time, click on this link and watch what Karl Dennigen has to say about the bailout! Very interesting!!!

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/594-MAKE-THIS-VIRAL-STOP-THE-BAILOUT!-SAVE-AMERICA!.html (http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/594-MAKE-THIS-VIRAL-STOP-THE-BAILOUT%21-SAVE-AMERICA%21.html)

I'd be interested in hearing what you think about it once you do!

It is interesting (to me) that I agree with opinion that the bailout should not be passed, but I strongly disagree with his explanation of 'why' we are in this mess. I took the time to pause the video and copy down an exact quote from his video:

"This can't and won't work because the problem is [B]trust not cash. We have gone from being a net debtor as an American public, that is, we save negative amounts of money of our income to the largest savings rate in the history of the nation in the space of a few months. People are hoarding, folks and that's why we have a lock-up in the markets. They are hoarding because there is no trust."

??????

While I am by no means an economic 'expert' it seems to me that the subprime, zero down home loans had a LOT (most?) to do with problem, not citizens 'saving money' ....what Karl calls 'hoarding'.

A lot of initially well intending people wanted more (lower incomed) people to be able to buy a house which led to the Community Reinvestment Act (http://www.bos.frb.org/commdev/cra/cra.htm).
The Act was later expanded (in 1992 I think) and required banks to makes
even more loans or be penalized.

The result? Lots more people got loans for houses they really could not afford. Banks and mortgage lending institutionsplayed a shell game and bundled and sold the 'bad debt'....they knew it was a bubble that would burst....eventually, someday..but they did not care so long as they weren't left holding the bag.

So the main point I have always disagreed with is that we can only stimulate the economy by promoting a continuation of 'debt' as the answer. I hate it when the Democrats say that and I hate it equally when the Republicans say it.

I am fiscal conservative who does not truly have a 'voice' represented in government (either party!).

I think I wish Dave Ramsey would run for President!

[Gina.Maria]

Yeah the Direct Loan people seem to be really lax in giving money as long as you go to a decently priced school. They are not going to give you the money to cover a private school or an expensive school. Most instate public university systems which are much, much cheaper they will cover the entire amount.

It's not the "Direct Loan" people. It's the U.S. Department of Education and it doesn't matter whether you're in a public, private, inexpensive or outrageoulsy expensive school. It's no more lax than any other student loan programs (which are, by the way, not tied to creditworthiness.) It has the same rules and limits as the Stafford Loans available through traditional lending institutions but costs less for the taxpayer because there are no subsidies paid to the lenders.