hey - non USA people...mandatory voting?

[Sara Ellis]

I chatted with one of my designer friends a few days ago & she is from Australia

She was surprised that the US doesn't make voting mandatory. Apparently in Australia they get fined if they don't vote.

sooooooo.. just curious... what are your voting standards across the globe?

[FrenchRuby]

Not mandatory in the UK, but should be IMHO.

[kristine]

Not mandatory in Norway either.

[EveRecinella]

Not mandatory in Denmark either....

[lauraskathi]

Not mandatory in Germany either.

[LindsaysMom]

It's not mandatory in Germany where I am originally from.

I think voting should not be made mandatory. People should be free to decide whether they want to vote.

[ccubed]

Belgium first introduced compulsory voting in 1892!! I really don't know how it works out for them. The names of people who did not vote (or more accurately did not enter a polling booth - - not necessary to complete a ballot :)) are sent to the public prosecutor. Just one of those things I know after spending several years living there. I am not aware that this has changed.

[Carinspixels]

not mandatory here either, but we do not to indentify with a legal valid passport and such.

It is our RIGHT to vote, so also our right to not vote.

[Thena]

Don't think it would do much good to make it mandatory. You want people to be passionate about the right to vote and to take it seriously. Mandatory might get a lot of people just voting for anyone or anything to fulfill that obligation.

[hazelsmrf]

Not mandatory in Canada.

[cheribear]

I prefer that people don't vote if they can't be bothered to learn about the candidates and issues. I take my vote seriously and like to think it would make a difference - I don't like the idea that someone else will just check any box at random because they have to - and their vote counts as much as mine.

If you care enough to go and vote, then your vote counts for something. If you don't - you're just ruining it for those who do.

[PixelPisces]

Not mandatory in the Netherlands, we have to much rights nowadays I think (in this country I mean)

[mlpieters]

I prefer that people don't vote if they can't be bothered to learn about the candidates and issues. I take my vote seriously and like to think it would make a difference - I don't like the idea that someone else will just check any box at random because they have to - and their vote counts as much as mine.

If you care enough to go and vote, then your vote counts for something. If you don't - you're just ruining it for those who do.

ITA. :D

[KimChristensen]

Wowza. I'm SO glad we don't have mandatory voting. Lord, like enough of our rights aren't stripped away as is!

[opeysmama]

Government mandated voting. Not a good idea. I vote no on that :)

[ina]

Hmm, interesting. No mandatory voting in the Philippines either, where I am from. I wonder what my husband would think of that. (He's the news/politics person in the family, I just like to keep updated enough to rile him up. ;) )

[Hummie]

Very interesting.

[mixedclawzz]

I prefer that people don't vote if they can't be bothered to learn about the candidates and issues. I take my vote seriously and like to think it would make a difference - I don't like the idea that someone else will just check any box at random because they have to - and their vote counts as much as mine.

If you care enough to go and vote, then your vote counts for something. If you don't - you're just ruining it for those who do.


Well said! ITA.

[cloggie68]

Well said! ITA.


I second this... please don't vote if you're not bothered!

[BobbieB]

Yep I am glad it's not mandatory here. Voting is a right and a privilege. Making people vote takes that away. and as the US is a "free" Country I can't see them making this happen either

[pewtertm]

I'd hate to see it mandatory, mainly because I know enough people who don't care to inform themselves on the issues and show disdain for every facet of government. The worst thing...those people are some of the first to gripe and complain about those in office. IMO, if you don't vote, don't complain.

[dst212 (Daniela)]

Mandatory in Brazil if you're between 18 and 65 years old. Optional between 16 and 18 and above 65. I wish it wasn't, because a lot of people who don't know a thing (or don't care) have to vote and ruin our lives for 4 years at a time.

[cheribear]

As much as I don't want people who don't care to be forced to vote - I love seeing higher voter turnout numbers. It just warms my heart when more people actually DO care enough to vote. :)

My husband doesn't vote, and I don't drag him along because he'd probably cancel out my vote anyway. But if he ever takes enough of an interest to want to come along with me, I'll be doing cartwheels all the way there.

[Sara Ellis]

I never posted my opinion in the OP, but I defnitely agree that it is our right to choose and one of the fabulous things about our country. It is sad about the low number of people that actually vote here, but forced voting is not the way to do it.

I do have a feeling we will have more people voting for this Presidential election, than previous ones.

[Gina.Maria]

Could you imagine the revenue we'd generate if we fined non-voters, though? That $700 billion would look like a drop in the bucket!!! ;)

[lunafaerie]

Could you imagine the revenue we'd generate if we fined non-voters, though? That $700 billion would look like a drop in the bucket!!! ;)

hehehehe...

Seriously though, I'm waiting for anyone from Australia to chip in. How do you feel about mandated voting? (and yes, I realize that they are not usually on the boards at this time of day, ETA-apparently my timezone calculation was way off, as usual sorry ;))

[Jezza]

I never posted my opinion in the OP, but I defnitely agree that it is our right to choose and one of the fabulous things about our country. It is sad about the low number of people that actually vote here, but forced voting is not the way to do it.

I do have a feeling we will have more people voting for this Presidential election, than previous ones.

Well, we're not really forced. It's just the done thing here, and you get used to it. It's the only way you ever know.

You can still muck up the voting papers so your vote doesn't count.

Obviously, I don't have a problem with it, since like I said it's the done thing. But I remember reading/seeing about women having no right to vote earlier on (Mind you this was long ago) I don't know which country/ies it was, so I actually think of it as a privilege.

[Jenaroo]

Well, we're not really forced. It's just the done thing here, and you get used to it. It's the only way you ever know.

You can still muck up the voting papers so your vote doesn't count.

Obviously, I don't have a problem with it, since like I said it's the done thing. But I remember reading/seeing about women having no right to vote earlier on (Mind you this was long ago) I don't know which country/ies it was, so I actually think of it as a privilege.


Doesn't bother me that it's compulsory either. It's just the way it is. If I choose not to vote then I have to pay for that right but I think it at least forces most people to look at the alternatives on offer and vote for change if they think it's necessary, as in our last election. Still a bit to early to tell if the right party was elected, but you get a better idea of what the whole nation wants I think.

Keep in mind that our voting system is much different to the U.S one as well. We vote for our local candidate not a "President". If a party wins enough seats to form a majority government then the leader of that party becomes our "Prime Minister". Of course if you like one party leader better that another that will influence which local candidate you vote for.

[aromachock]

I am an Australian who now lives in the US. I'm not a citizen yet so I can't vote in the upcoming election but I plan to be ready for the next one.

Having lived in both countries I definitely think voting should be compulsory. I just don't feel like we have a true majority representation in the States. I know that people have the right to vote and they should implement that right, but there are a lot of people who have an opinion but just don't get around to it. There are also a lot of people who don't vote because they don't think their vote means anything. If EVERYONE voted then their vote would definitely mean something.

And they don't generate a lot of revenue in Australia from non-voters because everyone just accepts it as something they are required to do as a citizen of the country. Just like following traffic laws or paying taxes - it's your responsibility as a citizen to have a say in the way the country is run.

[Amson]

I love mandatory voting here in Australia as it means everyone has to at least give an opinion. On a few occasions i have just drawn a line through the voting paper or written on the paper what I think of the candidates and it is always interesting to see in an election how many invalid votes there are. If you don't vote how can you complain or voice an opinion about government. At least when our candidates get in we know they have a majority and at least app 50% of voters support them. It worries me when we have US Presidents who are ruling with such low vote percentages. The way I look at this is that most people do not support the president.

[DebF]

The Australian system means that everyone has to turn out and register a vote - they can still decline to vote by putting xx on the card instead of numbers, which I have done in the past when I disapproved of all of the candidates. On the other hand, I can say that I'm not responsible for the current mismanagement, as I didn't vote for them ;)

we have such a small population, and often apathy about elections is so high that if people weren't compelled to turn out there would be a very small vote.

[Rita (Blue Flower Art)]

I don't like the idea that someone else will just check any box at random because they have to - and their vote counts as much as mine.



Electoral roll registration is also compulsory in Australia, not just voting. You will find that statistically only 5% of people do not vote or submit a blank form. When they have to make a choice, they generally choose. You can also make your feelings known by submitting a blank form. I normally vote, but I was very unhappy with something in the last local election and submitted a form with my opinion and no vote. It felt great. It might have only been laughed at in the ballot counting rooms or maybe I am naive enough to think that someone would read it, but I got to say something.

Random votes count also, I think there is a preference system that I don't understand. So, a random tick, depending on what canditate it is towards, is counted towards a party. A party (and hence the leader of that party) can be voted in on preferences or if a smaller party has enough of these votes, they can give their support to the larger party.

It is also illegal to register at a polling booth and not submit a vote. People that refuse to take a ballot paper are reported, however people that submit a blank ballot paper can't be reported because of the secrecy of voting. There is no name on the ballot paper.

ETA: a higher than normal blank votes also sends a message.

[lsl_scrapper]

While I respect the fact that you all like compulsory voting in Australia, I can't endorse it for us in the US. For one thing, it would make us hypocrites to say we have freedom, and then NOT have freedom to choose whether or not to vote. But more important, I echo what others have said....if you aren't informed or don't have an opinion, please leave the decision to someone who does. I often do that even when I DO vote. Often I show up at the polls and there is some office I wasn't aware of or an issue I really don't care one way or the other. For example, a tax issue, where I really don't mind PAYING the extra tax, but also don't think it is an important issue. So I am willing to leave that decision to those who do care and go along with their choice.

[Anita Richards]

I worked in the political sector for a number of years in the 1990's and had the opportunity and privilege to act as a scrutineer in elections for Local Council, State Government as well as Federal Government elections ... I've got to say that I wholeheartedly agree that attendance at a polling place on election day should be compulsory as it is here in Oz.

There's been a lot of talk about rights here in this thread and, yes, I totally agree it's a basic human right to vote or not vote.

The flip side of that however is that in a democracy where that right to vote is facilitated by the Government, then it is the duty of the people to attend a polling place to cast or not cast a vote.

So I'm all for compulsory polling place attendance to facilitate the rights and duties of the people to vote. :D

[Jenaroo]

I worked in the political sector for a number of years in the 1990's and had the opportunity and privilege to act as a scrutineer in elections for Local Council, State Government as well as Federal Government elections ... I've got to say that I wholeheartedly agree that attendance at a polling place on election day should be compulsory as it is here in Oz.

There's been a lot of talk about rights here in this thread and, yes, I totally agree it's a basic human right to vote or not vote.

The flip side of that however is that in a democracy where that right to vote is facilitated by the Government, then it is the duty of the people to attend a polling place to cast or not cast a vote.

So I'm all for compulsory polling place attendance to facilitate the rights and duties of the people to vote. :D


Well said!!! I agree with everything you said.

[Jenaroo]

While I respect the fact that you all like compulsory voting in Australia, I can't endorse it for us in the US. For one thing, it would make us hypocrites to say we have freedom, and then NOT have freedom to choose whether or not to vote. But more important, I echo what others have said....if you aren't informed or don't have an opinion, please leave the decision to someone who does. I often do that even when I DO vote. Often I show up at the polls and there is some office I wasn't aware of or an issue I really don't care one way or the other. For example, a tax issue, where I really don't mind PAYING the extra tax, but also don't think it is an important issue. So I am willing to leave that decision to those who do care and go along with their choice.


I believe even though we have compulsory attendance on polling day in Australia we are still a free and democratic society. I don't think we are hypocritical when we say we are a free nation. We still have the right to not vote and it is anonymous so you are not fined for that, but you must turn out on polling day and demonstrate that right. As Anita said, it is a duty as a citizen.

[kimlizzy]

Mandatory or not............ thousands of votes are "invalid" or as we call them in Australia - "Donkey Votes" - whether by accidentally filling in the ballot paper incorrectly or deliberately. Mandatory voting does not in my opinion change the results much. People who deliberately cast "donkey votes" do it because they don't want to vote but don't want to get fined for not doing so. I believe if it wasn't mandatory the only difference would be less "donkey votes".

[mgl Scraps]

Not mandatory here in Portugal.

I never vote, mainly because our candidates, left or right, seem so much alike once they're actually elected - sad, but true. If it were mandatory, I'd vote blank, not tick a random box just to say I'd voted.
Here null votes (with more than one candidate selected) don't count towards anything, but blank votes do count. If we ever had more than a certain amount of blank votes, the election would have to be repeated (I'm not sure if with different candidates, or with the same, but blanks can't exceed a certain percentage or it'll mean too much of the population doesn't approve of any of the candidates.)

Oh, our system (and the majority of european ones, I think) is also very different, because there's no middleman like in the US. Here one person means one vote, directly on the candidate.

[clikchic]

Yep I am glad it's not mandatory here. Voting is a right and a privilege. Making people vote takes that away. and as the US is a "free" Country I can't see them making this happen either

Hate to tell you this but Australia is a free country too. It is mandatory to vote, but not mandatory to make your vote count. You can vote informally if you wish, by not filling out the voting form and posting it in the box blank.

I think it is a good thing. Those who really don't want to choose a person/party to vote for, don't have to but at least having it as a compulsory vote means that EVERYONE has to be bothered to go to the polling booth.

ETA: What I do hate, is the preferential votes system we have here.

[KimChristensen]

There's been a lot of talk about rights here in this thread and, yes, I totally agree it's a basic human right to vote or not vote.

The flip side of that however is that in a democracy where that right to vote is facilitated by the Government, then it is the duty of the people to attend a polling place to cast or not cast a vote.

So I'm all for compulsory polling place attendance to facilitate the rights and duties of the people to vote.

I wholeheartedly disagree :)

While I do believe people should vote, I also believe they should have a right to choose whether or not they want to, they also should have the right to choose to just stay home. The idea of a government telling EVERYONE in the country where to go and what to do is something that honestly I find a scary thought. The idea of a government having a law that says every single person needs to go stand in a line and write on a piece of paper strips a person of their basic rights. As is, while I think people should wear seatbelts, etc., governments thinking it THEIR PLACE to make laws that tell people what to do on those kinds of things is the government greatly GREATLY overstepping their bounds. Sigh. One by one our rights are getting stripped away. A gov't telling us that we HAVE to go somewhere or be fined is scary. And a stepping stone to them feeling they have the right to do just about anything.

[clikchic]

I worked in the political sector for a number of years in the 1990's and had the opportunity and privilege to act as a scrutineer in elections for Local Council, State Government as well as Federal Government elections ... I've got to say that I wholeheartedly agree that attendance at a polling place on election day should be compulsory as it is here in Oz.

There's been a lot of talk about rights here in this thread and, yes, I totally agree it's a basic human right to vote or not vote.

The flip side of that however is that in a democracy where that right to vote is facilitated by the Government, then it is the duty of the people to attend a polling place to cast or not cast a vote.

So I'm all for compulsory polling place attendance to facilitate the rights and duties of the people to vote. :D

Very well said Anita! Better than I ever could! :-)

[KimChristensen]

Those who really don't want to choose a person/party to vote for, don't have to but at least having it as a compulsory vote means that EVERYONE has to be bothered to go to the polling booth.


Exactly! WHY should the government have the right, even THINK they have the right to make those who don't want to be bothered to go to the polling booth? And if they feel we should all get vaccinated? Or go to a certain kind of school? Or only shop at certain places? Governments thinking they know better and that they have the right to insist that everyone go along with their notions of what is better for the people is where governments go totally wrong.

[clikchic]

I wholeheartedly disagree :)

While I do believe people should vote, I also believe they should have a right to choose whether or not they want to, they also should have the right to choose to just stay home. The idea of a government telling EVERYONE in the country where to go and what to do is something that honestly I find a scary thought. The idea of a government having a law that says every single person needs to go stand in a line and write on a piece of paper strips a person of their basic rights. As is, while I think people should wear seatbelts, etc., governments thinking it THEIR PLACE to make laws that tell people what to do on those kinds of things is the government greatly GREATLY overstepping their bounds. Sigh. One by one our rights are getting stripped away. A gov't telling us that we HAVE to go somewhere or be fined is scary. And a stepping stone to them feeling they have the right to do just about anything.

Well it is also compulsory in Australia to wear seatbelts, and rightly so! It is SO dangerous not to. The job of the government IS to make laws for the good of the people and lowering the road toll and saving lives is definitely not overstepping their bounds in my opinion.

I find it more scary that you are allowed to own a gun in America, just because you want to. I much prefer our laws in Australia that help to keep people safe. I don't WANT people to have the right to own a gun. And I am glad that in Australia they don't unless you need them for a farm or as a police officer etc.

Australia is a democracy, not a dictatorship, there is NOTHING to be scared of. The government still has to answer to the people.

[clikchic]

Exactly! WHY should the government have the right, even THINK they have the right to make those who don't want to be bothered to go to the polling booth? And if they feel we should all get vaccinated? Or go to a certain kind of school? Or only shop at certain places? Governments thinking they know better and that they have the right to insist that everyone go along with their notions of what is better for the people is where governments go totally wrong.

Because it is our DUTY to vote, to be informed, to make a decision on who we want to run our country. If you really feel that strongly against voting, you can vote informally, it really isn't that big a deal.

Our government encourages us to vaccinate our children by offering a financial rebate. I think this is a great idea it encourages people to vaccinate, but doesn't force them.

If the government decided we HAD to shop at certain places or go to certain schools, well quite honestly the idea of that is quite ridiculous and no government would be stupid enough to bring something like that in, as they would not make it through the next election, because they STILL have to answer to the people.

Like I said in my last post, it is a democracy not a dictatorship.

[Jenaroo]

I find it more scary that you are allowed to own a gun in America, just because you want to. I much prefer our laws in Australia that help to keep people safe. I don't WANT people to have the right to own a gun. And I am glad that in Australia they don't unless you need them for a farm or as a police officer etc.


Yes!!! You are so right. We have laws to keep us safe, like from drunk drivers and people who speed. Wearing a seat belt is just common sense but a lot of people don't have any so they make laws to protect everyone and if you choose to break them you pay the penalty. Compulsory voting does not take away our freedom, we are obligated though as a member of our society to choose who we want to lead us and I think that is a good thing. I would hate to see Australia go to non compulsory voting. At least if you vote you have the right to complain about the elected government. If you don't vote I don't think you have that right, morally. You gave it up. I guess there are a lot of people in the US that do complain about the government and it's policies though that didn't/will not vote.

[KimChristensen]

If the government decided we HAD to shop at certain places or go to certain schools, well quite honestly the idea of that is quite ridiculous and no government would be stupid enough to bring something like that in, as they would not make it through the next election, because they STILL have to answer to the people.

Like I said in my last post, it is a democracy not a dictatorship.

Ahh but a government making decisions that they know better than the people on matters that are not the government's responsibilty and passing laws as such blurs the line between democracy and dictatorship.

Well it is also compulsory in Australia to wear seatbelts, and rightly so! It is SO dangerous not to. The job of the government IS to make laws for the good of the people and lowering the road toll and saving lives is definitely not overstepping their bounds in my opinion.

I find it more scary that you are allowed to own a gun in America, just because you want to. I much prefer our laws in Australia that help to keep people safe. I don't WANT people to have the right to own a gun. And I am glad that in Australia they don't unless you need them for a farm or as a police officer etc.

Not wearing a seatbelt is dangerous to ME, not anyone else. I don't put others in danger if I don't wear a seatbelt (note I am a die hard seatbelt wearer lol). So why are they passing laws that say I have to wear a seatbelt? It's these little rights that slowly get stripped away until people no longer realize anymore that they were rights in the first place. Then suddenly BAM they start taking big rights away like owning a gun :D and everyone cheers. The idea that someone could walk in MY house with a gun and yet it would be illegal for me to have one to defend myself is mind blowing. BUt that's a whole other argument.

I just am slowly watching our US government get bigger and bigger, taking more and more little rights away and am afraid that one day everyone will become so complacent about it that they start to think it's a good thing and then we're doomed :) (tongue in cheek)

The role of government IMO (at least here in the US) is to provide representation for the citizens, ensure a national defense, and protect our rights as described in the constitution. Not to redistribute wealth, healthcare, make small laws that they think are in everyone's best interest, etc. In theory not even to control education, but that too is another argument all together.

Can we tell I'm a small governmenter?

[clikchic]

Ahh but a government making decisions that they know better than the people on matters that are not the government's responsibilty and passing laws as such blurs the line between democracy and dictatorship.

Not wearing a seatbelt is dangerous to ME, not anyone else. I don't put others in danger if I don't wear a seatbelt (note I am a die hard seatbelt wearer lol). So why are they passing laws that say I have to wear a seatbelt?

Perhaps, but if you are driving a car, by law here it is also your responsibility to ensure all your passengers are wearing a seatbelt, because you CAN cause them harm by causing an accident. How would you feel if someone drove one of your kids in car pool or what have you and didn't ensure they had their seatbelts on, because by law they don't have to. Or even one of your parents didn't think to put the seatbelt on your child, because they don't put their own on.

Why SHOULD you be able to make that choice when all it does is place others or yourself in danger? It would simply be stupid not to do it. Besides, when you are in an accident without a seatbelt on, you can fly throughout your vehicle or out of it, how do you know you WOULD'T cause injury to someone else in the car or outside of it. You don't. It is a law to protect you and others, not to take away your rights, they are two very different things.

I fail to see how it blur's the lines between democracy and dictatorship, when it is the public's right to CHOOSE who they want in government. If the laws the government make are bad, they won't stay in government for long, so they can't afford to make bad choices. It is only a dictatorship when for whatever reason you are unable to make your choice of who you want to see in government.


It's these little rights that slowly get stripped away until people no longer realize anymore that they were rights in the first place. Then suddenly BAM they start taking big rights away like owning a gun :D and everyone cheers. The idea that someone could walk in MY house with a gun and yet it would be illegal for me to have one to defend myself is mind blowing. BUt that's a whole other argument.

You have every right to defend yourself, however, if guns are difficult to own or buy, you have to have a licence and a particular reason to own one other than just defense, you won't be the only one without the gun, your home invader will be unlikely to have one also. It is a lot easier to shoot someone than it is to threaten them with a knife or something. If guns are very difficult to get hold of, it levels the playing field. Your right to bear arms, becomes less necessary. I find it scary that anyone should find that necessary. I find it scary that there is a government that allows people to have a gun. Accidents happen WAY to easily and there really isn't a need for a gun, if no-one has easy access to them.

I just am slowly watching our US government get bigger and bigger, taking more and more little rights away and am afraid that one day everyone will become so complacent about it that they start to think it's a good thing and then we're doomed :) (tongue in cheek)

The role of government IMO (at least here in the US) is to provide representation for the citizens, ensure a national defense, and protect our rights as described in the constitution. Not to redistribute wealth, healthcare, make small laws that they think are in everyone's best interest, etc. In theory not even to control education, but that too is another argument all together.

Can we tell I'm a small governmenter?

Well I disagree with you there, we need government to build roads, and make road laws, to protect the best interest of the people, and protect our rights, but there are times when the best interest of the people is more important than our rights. For example smoking laws. I am SO glad we have them now against smoking in public places. Why should I get sick because smokers choose to smoke and force me to breath their poisonous air? I have as much right to breath clean air as a smoker does to smoke. Thankfully it is now a rare occasion that I have to breathe that crap in and my lungs get to stay as clean as they should be. Smokers can still smoke, but not near public areas, where people eat or in pubs and clubs. You have to do it in the privacy of your own home or outdoors away from high traffic areas and yes, I LIKE it that way. :-)

[Gina.Maria]

While I respect the fact that you all like compulsory voting in Australia, I can't endorse it for us in the US. For one thing, it would make us hypocrites to say we have freedom, and then NOT have freedom to choose whether or not to vote. But more important, I echo what others have said....if you aren't informed or don't have an opinion, please leave the decision to someone who does. I often do that even when I DO vote. Often I show up at the polls and there is some office I wasn't aware of or an issue I really don't care one way or the other. For example, a tax issue, where I really don't mind PAYING the extra tax, but also don't think it is an important issue. So I am willing to leave that decision to those who do care and go along with their choice.

Oh... we have less freedom than we'd like to think. All you have to do is live in another country (a democracy, of course) for a few years and you'll understand just how oppressive the U.S. has become.

Mandatory or not............ thousands of votes are "invalid" or as we call them in Australia - "Donkey Votes" - whether by accidentally filling in the ballot paper incorrectly or deliberately. Mandatory voting does not in my opinion change the results much. People who deliberately cast "donkey votes" do it because they don't want to vote but don't want to get fined for not doing so. I believe if it wasn't mandatory the only difference would be less "donkey votes".

A previous poster said the "donkey votes" run about 5% each election. That means that 95% of your voting-age population cast a valid vote. That's HUGE by comparison with the U.S. If we could get even 50% participation from eligible voters, I'd feel better about our elections.

I fail to see how it blur's the lines between democracy and dictatorship, when it is the public's right to CHOOSE who they want in government. If the laws the government make are bad, they won't stay in government for long, so they can't afford to make bad choices. It is only a dictatorship when for whatever reason you are unable to make your choice of who you want to see in government.

Absolutely right, Clikchic! Our government is "of the people, by the people, for the people" and that means that they are supposed to be an extension of ourselves.

After reading all the responses from our friends from Australia, I'm intrigued by the possibility of rephrasing the character of voting from "right" to "duty." I guess I've always considered it my duty and I've impressed this responsibility on my children (none of whom are yet voting age) and hope they consider it a mandatory expression of their values when the time comes.

And, while it doesn't generate a lot of revenue in Australia, I think you underestimate the ability of Americans to rationalize and weigh the "cost versus the benefit." ;)

[suejones]

I vote because I want to (yes I HAVE to because it's compulsory) but I believe that if you want change in your government then you have to vote to make your feelings known.
I have raised my children to not see voting as something that interferes with 10 minutes of their lives every couple of years or so but as 10 minutes of their lives that may help determine how the country is run.
And yes... I see it as a duty. I have never cast a 'donkey vote' although there have been times that I've been tempted. And there have been times that I have voted for the lesser evil.

And in my opinion, I live in a free country!! :)

[Kazadoodle]

I find it appalling that so many of you seem to think that because voting is compulsory here that we don't educate ourselves about the candidates and that we don't care or have an opinion. I can assure you, we do! Or at least all the people that I know do. In fact, because it is compulsory, a lot of us make the effort to find out what each candidate is offering so we can vote for the best one. Because we have to, because it matters. Political discussions in Australia are just as rampant as they are in America.

Figures on voting -

95% of Australians on the Electoral Roll vote

Only 70% of Americans register to vote and of that number, around 50% actually do vote - now that's not a great representation of the total population, is it? That means that the President is only there by the vote of less than 40% of the people, now that's scary.

Just as a FYI, I'm not denied any basic rights living in Australia, nor do I feel like I've been stripped of any privileges. I can come and go as I please, I have freedom of speech, I have freedom of religion, I can protest in the streets if I want.

[Gina.Maria]

I truly cannot see any cognitive dissonance between mandatory voting and freedom when you take into consideration that we're required to have a license to drive a car, we're required to obtain a Social Security Number to work (or to even exist as a citizen any more) we're required to submit to the authority of our government in all legal and civil matters, etc. If mandatory voting had been in place since the beginning we'd all be defending it as vehemently as our Australian friends do. In all honesty, Americans, have you ever considered Australia a totalitarian society? Repressed in any way? Not likely. I'd like to see mandatory voting because I have friends who have strong opinions about politics (not always in accordance with my own, but they have opinions) who do not vote because they submit to their husband's authority and he does the voting for their family. Mandatory voting would actually give them more freedom of expression.

[Kazadoodle]

I have friends who have strong opinions about politics (not always in accordance with my own, but they have opinions) who do not vote because they submit to their husband's authority and he does the voting for their family. .

Gosh, seriously? I can't imagine that happening here. I'm not saying that it doesn't, but not in my circle of friends and colleagues.

Is this just your American friends, or German friends as well? I know from speaking with my mother, that Germans are incredibly political minded and it's one of the few things that gets their blood up (her words, sort of, not mine, LOL)

[Gina.Maria]

No. Not German friends. They are incredibly independent and don't even take their husband's name when they marry. ;) It's my American friends. Some of those I socialized with are Christian Fundamentalists and subscribe to the idea of following Titus in defining marriage and family. Somehow, that ends up with many of them forfeiting their right to vote.

I have rather eclectic tastes when it comes to my friends...

[Kazadoodle]

LOL Gina. A lot of Australian women are the same (like your German friends) and often have two names, their married name and their professional name, which is their maiden name.

I have eclectic tastes in friends too :) I know from reading a lot of your posts that we would get along just fine, but would have many arguments, or not :)

I find it amazing just how much leaving one's country of birth changes one's view of it. There's nothing like being away from it, to make you appreciate it more and of course, contrarily, realise all it's faults!

[Gina.Maria]

You're so right! It's like you can't see the forest for the trees when you're in your home country. I've learned that freedom is more than a word and patriotism is more than a waving flag. It's not as simplistic as that, but it's too complex to put into a post on a scrapbooking board. :)

If you're ever in Arizona, look me up and if I'm ever in your hemisphere, I'll do the same.

[Rita (Blue Flower Art)]

I find it appalling that so many of you seem to think that because voting is compulsory here that we don't educate ourselves about the candidates and that we don't care or have an opinion.



Thank you for saying that.

Out of the 95% that do vote, only 5% register an invalid vote either on purpose or by accident. That doesn't indicate ignorant voters.

Also, any sharp increase in invalid votes would send out a very loud and clear message.

[Gina.Maria]

I think the fact that so many Americans are saying they don't want people who aren't aware of the issues or educated about the candidates to cast a vote in a mandatory setting only speaks to how poorly we view one another and how much respect we have for our fellows. It's quite possible that a mandatory vote might energize the rest of our citizens to take an interest.

[scribler]

Having read all the posts, I am still not in favor of compulsory voting. I still think you would have too many people voting for one candidate or the other without really being informed about that candidate's political goals. I just don't think these forced voters would all of a sudden actually start getting informed about the election, because they had to vote on election day.

OTOH, I sure would like to know more about how Portugal's "blank ballot" requirements work, because it sure sound appealing about now.

[Gina.Maria]

And how many eligible, voting-age citizens with an opinion don't vote? Too many! I had plenty of friends and acquaintances who were willing to discuss what was wrong with our country all day long but, when asked who they voted for or were voting for, they answered that they don't vote. Because one vote can't make a difference. Pathetic.

[scribler]

I grew up in state where, until the last couple of elections, it seemed like my vote didn't really matter. Yet, I wanted to vote when I was 10 years old. I knew who I wanted to be President that year. And when I turned 18 I was still excited to vote, even thinking that the votes in my state didn't matter. So, as close as the last couple of elections have been, I really don't feel that sorry for those who choose not to vote.

[Scorpiosue1102]

Honestly, I wouldn't care if it was compulsory for people to have to vote here in the U.S. I think it's embarrassing that so many people do not vote in our country yet so many have an opinion about what goes on. If you don't like it VOTE! You're not just voting for President, but representatives (state and federal), senators (state and federal), judges, county seats, referendums and more. Your vote can count for those races.

[lsl_scrapper]

I find it appalling that so many of you seem to think that because voting is compulsory here that we don't educate ourselves about the candidates and that we don't care or have an opinion. I can assure you, we do!

I'm sorry you felt that our objection to compulsory voting equates to our feeling you don't care or aren't educated. I'm pretty sure nobody meant to imply it. I certainly don't believe it.

Just as a FYI, I'm not denied any basic rights living in Australia, nor do I feel like I've been stripped of any privileges. I can come and go as I please, I have freedom of speech, I have freedom of religion, I can protest in the streets if I want.

I guess here we'd have to define 'basic right'. Apparently you can't come and go as you please if you HAVE to GO vote. That may not bother you and it may be a sacrifice you are willing to make. BTW, I vote in every election. But the minute I was told I HAVE to go vote, would be the minute I chose to excercise civil disobedience and refuse to GO. I strongly believe voting should be a CHOICE, as should serving in the military. It works for your country and I'm not doubting that. I'm just saying it is NOT what I want for MY country and would do everything possible to prevent it happening. We all choose our battles and for me, this is one I would fight.

[lsl_scrapper]

I truly cannot see any cognitive dissonance between mandatory voting and freedom when you take into consideration that we're required to have a license to drive a car, we're required to obtain a Social Security Number to work (or to even exist as a citizen any more) we're required to submit to the authority of our government in all legal and civil matters, etc. If mandatory voting had been in place since the beginning we'd all be defending it as vehemently as our Australian friends do. In all honesty, Americans, have you ever considered Australia a totalitarian society? Repressed in any way? Not likely. I'd like to see mandatory voting because I have friends who have strong opinions about politics (not always in accordance with my own, but they have opinions) who do not vote because they submit to their husband's authority and he does the voting for their family. Mandatory voting would actually give them more freedom of expression.

You are required to have a drivers license ONLY if you choose to drive. Just as you are required to have a license to practice medicine ONLY if you choose to practice medicine. I don't think that is a valid comparison. Yes, we need SSN, and there is much debate over that. And yes, you submit to being governed...that is the definition of being part of a unit. But you also have the RIGHT to have a say in HOW you are governed. And the CHOICE as to whether or not you exercise that right.

I also don't know your friends but that argument adds nothing. They could vote and submit to his authority by voting his way and not theirs....in fact I know many who do. Going to the polls in and of itself does not change this and in fact, by NOT going and voting his way, is a way of voting their way by not adding one more vote.

But none of that is really relevant to me. If I don't have the basic choice of whether or not I choose to participate, my vote doesn't really matter any more. I do vote every election, but I cherish the fact that I am able to make that CHOICE.

[Gina.Maria]

Wow. Free to vote or not. And you'd throw away your vote in a fit of pique if they told you you had to do it?

I'm sorry, but I consider it a duty, not a right. We have the right to choose our candidate but the responsibility to show up and do it.

And as for women who "submit", some are kept home by controlling husbands because they suspect their wives might vote contrary to them.

[Scorpiosue1102]

People died for us to have the right to vote. But then they died for us to make the choice to not vote too. It took me 20 minutes to vote in the primaries. 20 minutes and it may take me a whole 30 minutes to vote for President. 50 minutes to vote for people to represent me is worth it.

[Kazadoodle]

Having read all the posts, I am still not in favor of compulsory voting. I still think you would have too many people voting for one candidate or the other without really being informed about that candidate's political goals. I just don't think these forced voters would all of a sudden actually start getting informed about the election, because they had to vote on election day.



Why? Are you talking about this happening in the States? Just curious on this as I'm not entirely clear if you are saying we in Australia are not informed or whether compulsory voting in the States would make people be robot-like and just vote because they had to.

[Kazadoodle]

I guess here we'd have to define 'basic right'. Apparently you can't come and go as you please if you HAVE to GO vote. That may not bother you and it may be a sacrifice you are willing to make. BTW, I vote in every election. But the minute I was told I HAVE to go vote, would be the minute I chose to excercise civil disobedience and refuse to GO.

Why can't I come and go as I please? I mean, lots of Australians travel, compulsory voting doesn't tie us down. Really not sure how you can come to this conclusion :shrug

So, if you are told by the government to do something, you aren't going to do it? Does this mean that you refuse to have a Social Security Number because you have too? Just curious. I know that if you don't have that 'number' you are denied a lot of things. Personally, I'd rather have compulsory voting than be a number in the collective.

[scribler]

Why? Are you talking about this happening in the States? Just curious on this as I'm not entirely clear if you are saying we in Australia are not informed or whether compulsory voting in the States would make people be robot-like and just vote because they had to.
Yes, I am talking about this happening in the U.S. Y'all can do whatever y'all would like in Australia. But in the U.S., I fear you'd have a lot of extremely ticked, but uninformed, individuals in the voting booth on election day. And I don't think they'd choose to go with blank ballots. Instead, they'd pick people at random and now the elections have become a game of chance. I don't want that, sorry.

I do have a question for y'all. Is election day a holiday in Australia? I'm just wondering with the long lines to vote, since everyone has to turn out, how people who have to work have the time to do it.

[lsl_scrapper]

Why can't I come and go as I please? I mean, lots of Australians travel, compulsory voting doesn't tie us down. Really not sure how you can come to this conclusion :shrug

So, if you are told by the government to do something, you aren't going to do it? Does this mean that you refuse to have a Social Security Number because you have too? Just curious. I know that if you don't have that 'number' you are denied a lot of things. Personally, I'd rather have compulsory voting than be a number in the collective.

My point is you leave you house to vote because you HAVE to...not necessarily because you choose to. And no....I don't refuse to do ANYTHING the gov't tells me too.....only things I feel passionately are wrong. I have no issue with the SSN, when used appropriately for the purpose it is intended....tax record collection. It is not a national ID number per se, and we can refuse to give it out for anything not tax related.....and I often DO refuse.

[Jenaroo]

I do have a question for y'all. Is election day a holiday in Australia? I'm just wondering with the long lines to vote, since everyone has to turn out, how people who have to work have the time to do it.

Polling day in Australia is always held on a Saturday from 8am to 6pm. All local schools are usually polling places and there is not usually a very long wait. Maybe 10 minutes at a busy time. We had local government elections in my state the other week and I was in and out in less than 5 minutes. If you can't get to a polling place on election day there is the option of pre-voting via postal votes and also absentee voting if you are out of your local area or even out of the country. So it's not really a big deal to vote, time wise.

[clikchic]

Yes, I am talking about this happening in the U.S. Y'all can do whatever y'all would like in Australia. But in the U.S., I fear you'd have a lot of extremely ticked, but uninformed, individuals in the voting booth on election day. And I don't think they'd choose to go with blank ballots. Instead, they'd pick people at random and now the elections have become a game of chance. I don't want that, sorry.

I do have a question for y'all. Is election day a holiday in Australia? I'm just wondering with the long lines to vote, since everyone has to turn out, how people who have to work have the time to do it.

Actually there are rarely long lines to vote as there are many many polling booths around the country that mean getting in to vote is a matter of walking in, giving your name, getting the voting forms, going to the booth, fill it in and drop it in the box. We have one two blocks away and it is always easy to get into. It has never taken me longer than 5 minutes to vote.

Election Day's are always held on a Saturday so that the majority of people are not working and are open for long hours so that those who do, can do so before or after work. And those that can not make it to the booth can do a postal vote ahead of time. It really isn't such a big issue as you make it sound. It takes literally 10 minutes out of your day if that is too much to ask for the good of your country, I dread to think...

Besides, who is to say that people who register to vote in the US are any more informed than you or anyone else who votes? Who is to say they have the right information? Regardless as to how well educated they are on election policies, why should they have any less right to vote than you? Compulsory voting if anything makes people more interested in the issues at hand, and as far as I am concerned, that can only be a good thing.

[Scorpiosue1102]

Yes, I am talking about this happening in the U.S. Y'all can do whatever y'all would like in Australia. But in the U.S., I fear you'd have a lot of extremely ticked, but uninformed, individuals in the voting booth on election day.

If people are uninformed that's their own fault. I'm sure if it came to buying a computer someone would look into that so why not one of the biggest leaders of the free world?

[Kazadoodle]

the biggest leaders of the free world?

I wish you guys would stop using that phrase. He is not my leader and I'm in the free world :) Thank you so much. (and Sue, I know you said ONE of and I do appreciate that, but it still grates, don't know why)

Scribler and lsl_scrapper, thanks for your answers.

[kimlizzy]

Do you think the majority of us just run into a polling booth and tick any old box on the ballot paper just because we have compulsory voting?? I don't think so.......... That was a very ill informed and offensive statement to make.


Having read all the posts, I am still not in favor of compulsory voting. I still think you would have too many people voting for one candidate or the other without really being informed about that candidate's political goals. I just don't think these forced voters would all of a sudden actually start getting informed about the election, because they had to vote on election day.

OTOH, I sure would like to know more about how Portugal's "blank ballot" requirements work, because it sure sound appealing about now.

[Rita (Blue Flower Art)]

Do you think the majority of us just run into a polling booth and tick any old box on the ballot paper just because we have compulsory voting?? I don't think so.......... That was a very ill informed and offensive statement to make.

Agreed.

Polling booths in our area have a festive mood about them... They are mainly within walking distance from our home, we walk over with our neighbours and have a yarn with them. It's a social event as well.

The candidates still walk the streets and meet their constituents, question them about changes that they would like to see and generally cop it on the chin if they need to. They have to work hard to convince people to vote for them.

The vote counting is also fun. We follow it on the television and sometimes we have neighbours over for it.

We also have a media embargo for a few days prior to elections. Now there's suppression of free speech.

We're a sad lot, yes? :p

It might be compulsory to roll up at a voting booth, but the interest that we exhibit is not compulsory.

[clikchic]

Do you think the majority of us just run into a polling booth and tick any old box on the ballot paper just because we have compulsory voting?? I don't think so.......... That was a very ill informed and offensive statement to make.

Yup, I agree, I think you (not you kimlizzy) would be surprised at just how informed the overall voting public are.

I had to chuckle at Kazadoodle's comment re biggest leader of the free world. There is an awful lot of free world outside of the big ole US of A. ;-) A lot more of it and a lot more free than some would think.

Agreed.

Polling booths in our area have a festive mood about them... They are mainly within walking distance from our home, we walk over with our neighbours and have a yarn with them. It's a social event as well.

The candidates still walk the streets and meet their constituents, question them about changes that they would like to see and generally cop it on the chin if they need to. They have to work hard to convince people to vote for them.

The vote counting is also fun. We follow it on the television and sometimes we have neighbours over for it.

We also have a media embargo for a few days prior to elections. Now there's suppression of free speech.

We're a sad lot, yes? :p

It might be compulsory to roll up at a voting booth, but the interest that we exhibit is not compulsory.

Exactly! We often walk to the polling booths with the kids also or if we are on the way out somewhere else, we might drive. The kids enjoy watching what we do in those mystery polling booths and we enjoy explaining it to them even though they are still a touch young to really understand.

When you walk through the gates of the local school or church grounds there is a huge sense of pride around the place, from all the people handing out leaflets on how to vote for their candidate, which we always refuse, since we already know how we want to vote. There are often stalls to help fundraise for those schools and churches with home made baked goodies. There is always a lot of excitment in the air and it is by no means a 'drag' to be 'forced' to go to the polling booths.

In my books, it is not only a duty to vote, but it is a duty to your country to want to vote, and be informed, and the majority of Australian's feel the same.

[Kazadoodle]

Agreed.

Polling booths in our area have a festive mood about them... They are mainly within walking distance from our home, we walk over with our neighbours and have a yarn with them. It's a social event as well.

The candidates still walk the streets and meet their constituents, question them about changes that they would like to see and generally cop it on the chin if they need to. They have to work hard to convince people to vote for them.

The vote counting is also fun. We follow it on the television and sometimes we have neighbours over for it.

We also have a media embargo for a few days prior to elections. Now there's suppression of free speech.

We're a sad lot, yes? :p

It might be compulsory to roll up at a voting booth, but the interest that we exhibit is not compulsory.


What a great description! I love the media embargo, three days of absolute silence, which gives you a chance to think!

We took our daughter to the polling station last time, as she was old enough not to misbehave. She was fascinated. The reps at the gate even gave her leaflets and everything, so she could feel to be a part of the proceedings.

[juzzie]

Im also in Australia where we have mandatory voting. I think the idea behind it is something along the lines of...
we will have to deal with whatever the elected to be Prime Minister policies etc are for thier term in Parliment, so it's better for the whole country to vote and get someone that a large majority would prefer rather than have millions of people / whole country having to put up with some Prime Minister that only only a small percentage voted for.

I sit on the fence with this as I hate voting, I am not very political but I the fact it is manadoty means I pay a little attention to whats going on to help me decide on who and where I want my country to go. Otherwise it would all be too easy to not vote and not pay attention and then end up with some idiot in charge of the country!

[Scorpiosue1102]

I wish you guys would stop using that phrase. He is not my leader and I'm in the free world :) Thank you so much. (and Sue, I know you said ONE of and I do appreciate that, but it still grates, don't know why)

Scribler and lsl_scrapper, thanks for your answers.

LOL no problem. That's why I didn't want to lump us into the all knowing greatest because obviously our country could learn a lot from countries like Brazil to Australia ;)

[Sulis]

I find it more scary that you are allowed to own a gun in America, just because you want to. I much prefer our laws in Australia that help to keep people safe. I don't WANT people to have the right to own a gun. And I am glad that in Australia they don't unless you need them for a farm or as a police officer etc.

I wholeheartedly agree. I am British and I am so glad people can not buy guns in this country either. I have never considered it an impingement on my human rights or freedom that I cannot pop out to the shop and buy a lethal weapon.

Voting is not mandatory in the U.K, but I can honestly say I would not care if it was. It would simply be another task amongst the myriad of other civic duties we are all bound by in order to function in society.

[tsaria]

Otherwise it would all be too easy to not vote and not pay attention and then end up with some idiot in charge of the country!

Whoa, freaky! That's exactly what it's like to live in America :)

j/k....no wait, I'm not...of the people that voted (what, someone said 40%?) less than half of those voted for GWB, and he still was made president! Someone even got more votes than him & he still won! I've felt utterly screwed for the last 8 years :mad (oh, and I did vote against him both times)

[scribler]

Do you think the majority of us just run into a polling booth and tick any old box on the ballot paper just because we have compulsory voting?? I don't think so.......... That was a very ill informed and offensive statement to make.

I have no idea how informed the Australian voters may be and I never said y'all were not well informed. I said this was specifically about U.S. voters and I still think that those who don't vote now and don't bother to become informed would still be uninformed if they had to go vote, here in the U.S. anyway.

[clikchic]

I have no idea how informed the Australian voters may be and I never said y'all were not well informed. I said this was specifically about U.S. voters and I still think that those who don't vote now and don't bother to become informed would still be uninformed if they had to go vote, here in the U.S. anyway.

I think that is pretty presumptuous. I suspect you underestimate the American public. I would place a bet, that if it were mandatory to vote, a lot more people would be informed because they have to vote, so they may as well make their vote count right?

I think the lax attitude would change because of mandatory voting.

[lsl_scrapper]

I think that is pretty presumptuous. I suspect you underestimate the American public. I would place a bet, that if it were mandatory to vote, a lot more people would be informed because they have to vote, so they may as well make their vote count right?

I think the lax attitude would change because of mandatory voting.

LOL! I don't think so. Wishful thinking, but not likely. MAYBE had it started that way, but not now. (And I still feel it goes against what I feel being an American is, to say I HAVE to vote, but you all are entitled to your opinion, and I've argued that one long enough.) But as polarized as we are....people would pretty much do what they do now....either vote the 'party line' or walk in and make a last minute choice based on some sound byte or somebodies looks, or the way the name sounds. Pretty much what goes on now, but you'd just have more people voting. I really doubt the outcome of the election would be much different.

[scribler]

I think that is pretty presumptuous. I suspect you underestimate the American public. I would place a bet, that if it were mandatory to vote, a lot more people would be informed because they have to vote, so they may as well make their vote count right?

I think the lax attitude would change because of mandatory voting.

I think you'd get more of an attitude of "they think they are going to make me vote, well I'll show them" and we could be worse off than if they were just making uninformed decisions. For the most part, Americans generally don't like the idea of being forced to do anything.

[kimlizzy]

I think you'd get more of an attitude of "they think they are going to make me vote, well I'll show them" and we could be worse off than if they were just making uninformed decisions. For the most part, Americans generally don't like the idea of being forced to do anything.



All the US talk about "my rights" and "my freedom" gets really tired......
We have rights and freedom too BUT there cannot be a society where everyone only does what they want. It doesn't work - hence the reason there are laws, rules and regulations.

Do you refuse to send your kids to school because you are "told" they must attend? Do you ignore stop signs because you are "told" you must stop?

Being "told" you have to vote is no different to being "told" you must send your kids to school or you must obey road rules.

[Kazadoodle]

I think you'd get more of an attitude of "they think they are going to make me vote, well I'll show them" and we could be worse off than if they were just making uninformed decisions. For the most part, Americans generally don't like the idea of being forced to do anything.

You aren't forced to vote. If you don't want to, you pay a fine. Very much like being told to keep to the speed limit, etc etc. You break the law, you pay the fine.

Seriously though, not doing something because you are told too is very childish. This is something that my 7 year old would do. I'm not saying that you are childish Cindy, or anyone here is, but you are saying that this is the attitude of the American people, and if so, then I think they need to grow up a little.

No offense intended, just replying to what I see here.

[sunnie2004]

There is some things here in the US that will strip your right to be able to vote...

Just thought I would throw this out there also...A federal conviction...& dishonerable
millitary discharge...& I am not sure but a few others.

[Kazadoodle]

I just found this today about compulsory voting in Australia and the concerns about people making uninformed decisions:

You cannot vote if you are not able to understand the nature and importance of the voting and enrolment process,

[lsl_scrapper]

All the US talk about "my rights" and "my freedom" gets really tired......
We have rights and freedom too BUT there cannot be a society where everyone only does what they want. It doesn't work - hence the reason there are laws, rules and regulations.

Do you refuse to send your kids to school because you are "told" they must attend? Do you ignore stop signs because you are "told" you must stop?

Being "told" you have to vote is no different to being "told" you must send your kids to school or you must obey road rules.


Please understand, in the US, we have a different view. If it works for you that is fine....that is YOUR country and you should do what works for YOU. But for us, at least me, my 'rights' and my 'freedom' is SOOO important. We have nothing if we do not have our rights and freedom....yes....even at the risk of anarchy.

And many of us DO refuse to send our children to school. It wasn't that long ago that home schooling was not considered legal in our state...and many parents said 'hey...wait just a minute here.....we have a right to educate our kids they way WE want to. And won.

And yes....I'd guess the great majority of Americans DO break the rules of the road. I know I certainly do. We do what is called the 'rolling stop'. If there is no traffic coming....why stop? If the majority of Americans ever feel mandatory voting is a good idea, they can petition for an amendment and hope to get it passed. But my gut instinct says it's not going to happen.

Really...we don't like the government telling us what to do here.

[clikchic]

Please understand, in the US, we have a different view. If it works for you that is fine....that is YOUR country and you should do what works for YOU. But for us, at least me, my 'rights' and my 'freedom' is SOOO important. We have nothing if we do not have our rights and freedom....yes....even at the risk of anarchy.
*snip*
Really...we don't like the government telling us what to do here.

Could be a large reason for a lot of the problems your country has, such as school shootings, gun related crimes etc. etc...

There is a reason we need a government, and that is because anarchy doesn't work. We need laws to protect our rights and freedoms, such as the right to live in a safe environment and have protections for our children.

If everyone did whatever the hell they wanted, a lot of our rights would be infringed upon and our life would not be free.

[Kazadoodle]

Really...we don't like the government telling us what to do here.

We don't either and implying we have no rights nor freedoms based solely on the fact that we have mandatory voting is absurd.

[donna.d]

I like voting... We get a sausage sizzle and cake... the kids sit up on the table and watch us put a little "1" in a box (that's pretty much it for some elections LOL).

My DD (5) knows who the Prime Minister, Premier and Mayor are and is very inquisitive about politics, all this comes from the discussions we have as a family and with our friends about politics/economy etc etc. We are interested because we need to know. It would never occur to me not to vote. On occasion I also vote for the same person as my husband ROFL

As much a some cannot understand why we see voting as a duty and not as an impingement on our 'rights', I simply cannot fathom why someone would choose to have an opinion and not vote.

I think the fine for not voting here is something like $50. Not a huge amount (particularly if you see that a basic speeding fine will set you back well over $100)

[cheribear]

We have nothing if we do not have our rights and freedom....

I'm not really up with the idea of compulsory voting - but I do think with rights and freedoms comes responsibility - and if compulsory voting were to become my country's policy, I wouldn't thumb my nose at it - because I take that responsibility seriously. I certainly wouldn't throw away a vote just to protest being told I had to vote, and would not be able to condone or understand anyone else doing so.

If seen in a different light - as something that is a responsibility as a citizen - a compulsory voting policy does communicate to the people of a country that their vote, and their citizenship matters. I don't see it at all as telling people what to do, or restricting freedom, or being against your rights. I do worry that some people wouldn't take the responsibility seriously, but that percentage of people NOT voting has an impact on the rest of us anyway.

Now, I'm curious as to how people who would protest a compulsory vote because they don't like being told what to do - how they feel about a potential draft for the military, or those who would dodge the draft? Unpatriotic? Or would you be cheering them on as they head for the border?

[Kazadoodle]

I'm not really up with the idea of compulsory voting - but I do think with rights and freedoms comes responsibility - and if compulsory voting were to become my country's policy, I wouldn't thumb my nose at it - because I take that responsibility seriously. I certainly wouldn't throw away a vote just to protest being told I had to vote, and would not be able to condone or understand anyone else doing so.

If seen in a different light - as something that is a responsibility as a citizen - a compulsory voting policy does communicate to the people of a country that their vote, and their citizenship matters. I don't see it at all as telling people what to do, or restricting freedom, or being against your rights. I do worry that some people wouldn't take the responsibility seriously, but that percentage of people NOT voting has an impact on the rest of us anyway.

Now, I'm curious as to how people who would protest a compulsory vote because they don't like being told what to do - how they feel about a potential draft for the military, or those who would dodge the draft? Unpatriotic? Or would you be cheering them on as they head for the border?

Beautifully said.

As a side note, when I was in High School and was studying politics as one of my subjects, my teacher informed us that he had been imprisoned for being a draft dodger because he didn't believe in the war in Vietnam. I admired him for standing up for his beliefs and taking the subsequent punishments. My brother refuses to vote because to date, he has not believed in any of the candidates, and he is quite happy to pay the fine, no excuses. He doesn't believe in making a 'false' or 'donkey' vote, as he doesn't see that as playing fair.

I will always admire those who stand by their beliefs, no matter what. But those people who simply won't because they were told they had to, no, nothing to admire there, that's just being contrary.

[tsaria]

While most road-related laws are in place for safety reasons (ie stop signs, speed limits, etc.), ... wait, I can see how voting could be for your own safety...protect yourself from the shrub...lol.

okay, so I'm adding nothing of value...it's late and I'm bored =)

[Kazadoodle]

While most road-related laws are in place for safety reasons (ie stop signs, speed limits, etc.), ... wait, I can see how voting could be for your own safety...protect yourself from the shrub...lol.

okay, so I'm adding nothing of value...it's late and I'm bored =)

I ain't saying nothing, nothing I tell you :)

[Rita (Blue Flower Art)]

But for us, at least me, my 'rights' and my 'freedom' is SOOO important. We have nothing if we do not have our rights and freedom....yes....even at the risk of anarchy.



There is one fundamental difference that no one has mentioned.

Simplistically and without going into much detail...

Your rights, are written in a constitution. You are told what your rights are.

Our "constitution" is silent on that. We can do anything we want to unless it is mandated that we can't. For that we have basic codes such as the crime's code, the traffic code, etc. much like every other country has.

Hence, government policies and election promises become important because it can change things. Many governments have held referendums to change the constitutions and all have failed by a great majority. We guard things as they are because our freedom is not restricted by a policy telling us what our rights are. Voting has great value.

It hasn't always been compulsory to vote and not everyone can vote. People with a legal disablility are not able to vote. Compulsory voting was introduced in 1924 (I think). Also, we don't have an identification system here the way other countries have. We are able to be anonymous to a great extent if we want to. We don't have an enforced number to identify us, we do have to register a birth, death and marriages, and that's it as far as I can think at the moment. My brother is not even registered on the electoral roll and he's been getting away with that for over 20 years.

To be honest, if you want argue freedom, I don't think you are as free as you would like to think.

[Jenaroo]

I'm not really up with the idea of compulsory voting - but I do think with rights and freedoms comes responsibility - and if compulsory voting were to become my country's policy, I wouldn't thumb my nose at it - because I take that responsibility seriously. I certainly wouldn't throw away a vote just to protest being told I had to vote, and would not be able to condone or understand anyone else doing so.

If seen in a different light - as something that is a responsibility as a citizen - a compulsory voting policy does communicate to the people of a country that their vote, and their citizenship matters. I don't see it at all as telling people what to do, or restricting freedom, or being against your rights. I do worry that some people wouldn't take the responsibility seriously, but that percentage of people NOT voting has an impact on the rest of us anyway.

Now, I'm curious as to how people who would protest a compulsory vote because they don't like being told what to do - how they feel about a potential draft for the military, or those who would dodge the draft? Unpatriotic? Or would you be cheering them on as they head for the border?

Thank you for being a voice of reason!!! We have as much if not more rights here in Australia than you have in the U.S. Just because we have to take 10 minutes out of our day every so often does not take way any of my basic freedoms and if it did I would be the first in line to protest against it. I really think that it is a duty to my country and one I except as a proud Australian.

[scribler]

My DD (5) knows who the Prime Minister, Premier and Mayor are and is very inquisitive about politics, all this comes from the discussions we have as a family and with our friends about politics/economy etc etc. We are interested because we need to know. It would never occur to me not to vote. On occasion I also vote for the same person as my husband ROFL

You don't have to have compulsory voting to have your children be interested in politics. It was discussed in our home and I definitely was interested. By 10, I was telling my mom and dad who I wanted them to vote for.

If voting were made compulsory here, I would still vote. However, to be honest, I think the idea of it being compulsory would take something away from the experience for me. I love voting and it's always a great way to start my day. I'm even more excited that after seven years, my dh has finally changed his address and will be voting. Voting is so important to me, but the idea of it being compulsory makes me kind of sad.

[lsl_scrapper]

I truly don't think we have that many problems. The school shooting things is blown way out of proportion. It's sad when it happens, but I never fear for my kids when I send them off to school. Same can be said about gun related crime. And I'm NOT saying I wouldn't want to see a bit more regulation....knowing who is 'carrying' so I can avoid them. But I'm also willing to put up with a certain amount of 'risk' if it preserves 'freedom'. Laws don't protect rights and freedoms....people do.

[OrianaVianey]

Not mandatory in Panama and El Salvador...
But we are educated to think that is a right and a duty
If you don't vote then you don't have the moral right to complain

[lsl_scrapper]

Not mandatory in Panama and El Salvador...
But we are educated to think that is a right and a duty
If you don't vote then you don't have the moral right to complain

Thank you for saying that. OF COURSE, I think everyone SHOULD vote. But it is my RIGHT NOT TO vote. I get to CHOOSE whether or not I do the right thing.

[lsl_scrapper]

Beautifully said.

As a side note, when I was in High School and was studying politics as one of my subjects, my teacher informed us that he had been imprisoned for being a draft dodger because he didn't believe in the war in Vietnam. I admired him for standing up for his beliefs and taking the subsequent punishments. My brother refuses to vote because to date, he has not believed in any of the candidates, and he is quite happy to pay the fine, no excuses. He doesn't believe in making a 'false' or 'donkey' vote, as he doesn't see that as playing fair.

I will always admire those who stand by their beliefs, no matter what. But those people who simply won't because they were told they had to, no, nothing to admire there, that's just being contrary.

And that hits the head on the nail. If I was told by the government I HAD to vote, I would refuse. As I said earlier, it would be an act of civil disobedience. NOT because I am being obstinate or stubborn, but because I truly think it goes against everything being American means to FORCE me to vote. And I would work hard to change that.

I am NOT saying it is wrong for your country. But it seems you are taking it as criticism of YOUR country because I think it is wrong to adopt it for mine.

[lsl_scrapper]

Now, I'm curious as to how people who would protest a compulsory vote because they don't like being told what to do - how they feel about a potential draft for the military, or those who would dodge the draft? Unpatriotic? Or would you be cheering them on as they head for the border?

ABSOLUTELY I would be first in line cheering them on. I fully support anyone who CHOOSES to serve in the military, but would fight with all I had against ever making it compulsory.

[kateypie]

It's not mandatory in NZ either. We are going to the election polls in a few weeks, will be interesting to see what happens!

[Kazadoodle]

means to FORCE me to vote. And I would work hard to change that.

I am NOT saying it is wrong for your country. But it seems you are taking it as criticism of YOUR country because I think it is wrong to adopt it for mine.

No, it's your choice of words that's grating me :) No one is FORCED. Force implies dire consequences if you don't vote. We don't have the police came to our house, hold guns to our heads and take us to the polling booth. Voting, although compulsory, is still ultimately a CHOICE and that's the part that so many of you don't seem to get, even though we have already mentioned it many times.

[Kazadoodle]

Not mandatory in Panama and El Salvador...
But we are educated to think that is a right and a duty


So are we :) We are fully aware of the right and privilege we have as citizens of being allowed to vote.

So many Australians are such political creatures, that they are even talking about the up coming US Election. Aussies love politics.

[lsl_scrapper]

No, it's your choice of words that's grating me :) No one is FORCED. Force implies dire consequences if you don't vote. We don't have the police came to our house, hold guns to our heads and take us to the polling booth. Voting, although compulsory, is still ultimately a CHOICE and that's the part that so many of you don't seem to get, even though we have already mentioned it many times.

OK...then I guess it is just semantics. I'll try to come up with another wording. but forced is all that comes to mind. Compulsory and forced are the equal words to me. We talk about 'forced bussing' here, but that doesn't imply that someone holds gun to anyone's head..just that it is 'mandatory'. And my kids complain about forcing them to do things, but I promise.....I'm not using violence. Just consequnces and rewards. Maybe we have different colloquial meanings. Anyway.....I would be opposed to compulsory voting for the US. If you tell me it is great for Australia, then I am in full support of Australia continuing to do so.

[kimlizzy]

We aren't FORCED to vote. We choose whether to vote or not. We can either cop the fine for not voting or we can make an "informal" vote. Anyone would think we were FORCED to do everything by gunpoint here.......... geez

The low percentage of voters in the "non compulsory" countries doesn't really shout "I have the RIGHT not to vote". Rather, it screams apathy. How many of those non voters really don't vote because it is their "right" not to and how many don't vote because they couldn't be bothered? Now that would be interesting to know.

[Gina.Maria]

Well, I have to say, again, I'd embrace compulsory voting because anything that gets our citizenry motivated to anything would be a blessing. Even if they're motivated to civil disobedience, at least it would be an effort to make themselves heard. The current apathy regarding elections in our country is dismal. I'm disappointed that others don't see it my way because I believe that with freedom comes great responsibility and, often, responsibility has to be enforced. It's really no different than jury duty, actually. If you ignore the summons to court, a bench warrant is issued. Would you change this, as well? I'm sorry our Australian friends have been made to feel as though they're being criticised for their enjoyment of this privilege. Based on their participation on our political threads, I'd say they're all taking an interest in the world around them and have a healthy perspective on what freedom really is.

[suejones]

Well, I have to say, again, I'd embrace compulsory voting because anything that gets our citizenry motivated to anything would be a blessing. Even if they're motivated to civil disobedience, at least it would be an effort to make themselves heard. The current apathy regarding elections in our country is dismal. I'm disappointed that others don't see it my way because I believe that with freedom comes great responsibility and, often, responsibility has to be enforced. It's really no different than jury duty, actually. If you ignore the summons to court, a bench warrant is issued. Would you change this, as well? I'm sorry our Australian friends have been made to feel as though they're being criticised for their enjoyment of this privilege. Based on their participation on our political threads, I'd say they're all taking an interest in the world around them and have a healthy perspective on what freedom really is.

Thankyou! :)

[Jenaroo]

Well, I have to say, again, I'd embrace compulsory voting because anything that gets our citizenry motivated to anything would be a blessing. Even if they're motivated to civil disobedience, at least it would be an effort to make themselves heard. The current apathy regarding elections in our country is dismal. I'm disappointed that others don't see it my way because I believe that with freedom comes great responsibility and, often, responsibility has to be enforced. It's really no different than jury duty, actually. If you ignore the summons to court, a bench warrant is issued. Would you change this, as well? I'm sorry our Australian friends have been made to feel as though they're being criticised for their enjoyment of this privilege. Based on their participation on our political threads, I'd say they're all taking an interest in the world around them and have a healthy perspective on what freedom really is.

Thank you from another Aussie.

[lsl_scrapper]

Well, I have to say, again, I'd embrace compulsory voting because anything that gets our citizenry motivated to anything would be a blessing. Even if they're motivated to civil disobedience, at least it would be an effort to make themselves heard. The current apathy regarding elections in our country is dismal. I'm disappointed that others don't see it my way because I believe that with freedom comes great responsibility and, often, responsibility has to be enforced. It's really no different than jury duty, actually. If you ignore the summons to court, a bench warrant is issued. Would you change this, as well? I'm sorry our Australian friends have been made to feel as though they're being criticised for their enjoyment of this privilege. Based on their participation on our political threads, I'd say they're all taking an interest in the world around them and have a healthy perspective on what freedom really is.

Well, jury duty in general is pretty easy to get out of. You don't have to even leave your house. And I'm sorry our Australian friends feel criticized too. As far as I've seen no one has criticized them or their country. Do you feel they have criticized the US or any of us here? I don't. To me it is much like having a different opinion on religion...I don't need to criticize you accept that it is right for you but not me.

[lsl_scrapper]

We aren't FORCED to vote. We choose whether to vote or not. We can either cop the fine for not voting or we can make an "informal" vote. Anyone would think we were FORCED to do everything by gunpoint here.......... geez

The low percentage of voters in the "non compulsory" countries doesn't really shout "I have the RIGHT not to vote". Rather, it screams apathy. How many of those non voters really don't vote because it is their "right" not to and how many don't vote because they couldn't be bothered? Now that would be interesting to know.

Then I will remain thankful I live in a country where I have the right to not be bothered, if I choose.

[Gina.Maria]

Well, jury duty in general is pretty easy to get out of. You don't have to even leave your house. And I'm sorry our Australian friends feel criticized too. As far as I've seen no one has criticized them or their country. Do you feel they have criticized the US or any of us here? I don't. To me it is much like having a different opinion on religion...I don't need to criticize you accept that it is right for you but not me.

Your rights have a cost that you and I are expected to pay - responsibility and duty. Getting out of jury duty is easy? If you've got a valid reason to not serve - fine - but it would also apply to voting if it's that incapacitating. (I'd like to take this opportunity to say that I consider jury duty one of our most important civic duties and I find your argument that it's easy to get out of repulsive.) And "you don't even have to leave your house" to do it? The same can be said of voting. And yes, I think our Australian friends have found some of the arguments put forth here offensive and childish. I'd have to agree.

[dranet]

I'd rather people that know and understand the issues do the voting. You make everyone vote, you're going to get bogus votes from people who have no clue.

[Jenaroo]

And I'm sorry our Australian friends feel criticized too. As far as I've seen no one has criticized them or their country.

The reason I think we are feeling criticized is because some posters keep on about "rights and freedom" and implying (if not saying outright) that we don't have that in Australia, where we do. We probably have a better quality of life here in Australia than you have in the US even though as you feel our rights on voting have been stripped away (and because of that we have no rights or freedom) and we are required to have a say in our country's future. I feel we will just have to agree to disagree on this topic as I don't think we will ever see eye to eye. I don't think any of the Aussie posters have said that the US should take up compulsory voting, just that it's not a bad thing (as some seem to think) and it can be a good thing if you open your mind a little to it's benefits.

[JaneyJane]

I live in the US too and I think the idea of compulsary voting would be something that the US should look at. I've read through the post where quite a few have said they don't want an uninformed ticked off person voting. Well, what about the Americans who vote only because they feel it is their right to vote and are uninformed. Whether a person is informed or not, how they vote is private. I am sure there are people who vote today that don't vote on the issues they vote with how a friend is voting or parents or for whatever reason. Granted voting at random is likely to mess things up, but it doesn't appear people care enough to be informed and cast their vote. I think many Americans take this country for granted and we are so divided right now, that's scary. I usually don't voice my opinions on matters like this, but I just couldn't keep my mouth shut.

I heard talk of "your rights" etc. But some without rules and laws to follow, that is truly a scary thought. I'm not trying to pick on any person's opinion here, I just wanted to give my thoughts on it.

Thank you all for listening-

Jane

[lunafaerie]

I live in the US too and I think the idea of compulsary voting would be something that the US should look at. I've read through the post where quite a few have said they don't want an uninformed ticked off person voting. Well, what about the Americans who vote only because they feel it is their right to vote and are uninformed. Whether a person is informed or not, how they vote is private. I am sure there are people who vote today that don't vote on the issues they vote with how a friend is voting or parents or for whatever reason. Granted voting at random is likely to mess things up, but it doesn't appear people care enough to be informed and cast their vote. I think many Americans take this country for granted and we are so divided right now, that's scary. I usually don't voice my opinions on matters like this, but I just couldn't keep my mouth shut.

I heard talk of "your rights" etc. But some without rules and laws to follow, that is truly a scary thought. I'm not trying to pick on any person's opinion here, I just wanted to give my thoughts on it.

Thank you all for listening-

Jane

Welcome and thanks for your post Jane, and welcome to the craziness that has become the DST Political Forum!

[lsl_scrapper]

The reason I think we are feeling criticized is because some posters keep on about "rights and freedom" and implying (if not saying outright) that we don't have that in Australia, where we do. We probably have a better quality of life here in Australia than you have in the US even though as you feel our rights on voting have been stripped away (and because of that we have no rights or freedom) and we are required to have a say in our country's future. I feel we will just have to agree to disagree on this topic as I don't think we will ever see eye to eye. I don't think any of the Aussie posters have said that the US should take up compulsory voting, just that it's not a bad thing (as some seem to think) and it can be a good thing if you open your mind a little to it's benefits.

Jen,
I truly am not criticizing you! REALLY! I think it is GREAT it works for you. As to whether you have a better quality of life....that is very subjective. I LOVE my life and would not live ANY place else! And beyond that, I will agree to disagree and stay away from this thread. Because anything else I could say to elaborate would just drag this out and possibly offend...and just be a rehashing of what's been said. So, though it will take discipline, I'm going to avoid reading this thread so as not to get sucked back in.

[JaneyJane]

Welcome and thanks for your post Jane, and welcome to the craziness that has become the DST Political Forum!

Thank You! Glad to be here :)

[tsaria]

I don't remember if I've said it yet, but I'd love to have compulsory voting. I think it's much easier than jury duty, and at least as important. We CAN'T do what the majority of people want if we don't KNOW what they want, kwim? But we definitely need to do away with the electoral college first.

[Kazadoodle]

And I'm sorry our Australian friends feel criticized too. As far as I've seen no one has criticized them or their country. Do you feel they have criticized the US or any of us here? I don't. To me it is much like having a different opinion on religion...I don't need to criticize you accept that it is right for you but not me.

Agreed, I didn't see any criticism either, misunderstandings yes, but as we have just words, that's bound to happen.

[Kazadoodle]

I'd rather people that know and understand the issues do the voting. You make everyone vote, you're going to get bogus votes from people who have no clue.

Mandatory does not equal stupid.

From what I've read in this forum alone, the US choice of voting doesn't make you understand or know the issues anymore than a compulsory vote does. Yes, we have bogus votes but by all accounts, so do you.

[Gina.Maria]

Jane and Tsaria - Thanks. I was beginning to feel lonely here with my opinions. ;)

Mandatory does not equal stupid.

From what I've read in this forum alone, the US choice of voting doesn't make you understand or know the issues anymore than a compulsory vote does. Yes, we have bogus votes but by all accounts, so do you.

:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap

President Gore, anyone?

[kimlizzy]

Then I will remain thankful I live in a country where I have the right to not be bothered, if I choose.


Enjoy!

And I will remain thankful to live in a country where the rights of the masses are deemed more important than the rights of the apathetic and selfish people who think they can do whatever they please whenever they please or not do something just because they can't be bothered, to the detriment of other people.

[tsaria]

President Gore, anyone?

Heck yes!

[scribler]

President Gore, anyone?

If you could bring back the 1988 Al Gore, I'd be all over it.

[mshanhun]

LOL if voting was not mandatory in Australia no one would bother! lol we all get govt benefits so we should all do our duty and vote :) - some people just never register to vote so their name is not on the electoral roll and I don't know if they get followed up

[Jenaroo]

I really hope we are not that ignorant a society that that is the case. I know I would be voting if it was optional here because I like to have a say in how our nation is run.

LOL if voting was not mandatory in Australia no one would bother! lol we all get govt benefits so we should all do our duty and vote :) - some people just never register to vote so their name is not on the electoral roll and I don't know if they get followed up

[Jenaroo]

What's up with the polling system in the U.S. I hear they are having trouble already with the way votes are recorded (for early voters), just like last time. What's wrong with paper and a pencil? Works pretty well for us.

[vegaschristina]

What's up with the polling system in the U.S. I here they are having trouble already with the way votes are recorded (for early voters), just like last time. What's wrong with paper and a pencil? Works pretty well for us.

I've already voted this election, and ours is fully electronic. It does print out a little scrap of paper with our choices, but the "count" is all electronic.

[Gina.Maria]

I think it's the problem that voting is handled at the local level. For instance, in Arizona we have a County Elections Board and there are 15 counties. They can each decide to handle voting in a different manner - paper, electronic, punch-cards, lever-pulls, etc. Often, a new method is selected and testing doesn't reveal any problems but long lines at the polls do - the machine's inability to handle high traffic, too few booths to handle the onslaught, etc. Because we don't enforce mandatory voting, we cannot predict the number who may show up to vote and it's usually assumed that an average percentage (based on previous years) of registered voters will attend. I think we can expect those numbers to change this year.