Thread to (respectfully) discuss/learn about Obama/Biden

[[michele]]

Thread to (respectfully) discuss/learn about Obama/Biden!

Supporters - Why will you be voting for them?

Non-Supporters - Why will you not be voting for them?

Specifics please and BE POLITE!

:) Michele

[Gina.Maria]

So... do we wait for someone to ask a question or just put something out there?

[[michele]]

I added a bit to each OP. I liked your idea of having a thread that is easy to find.

:) Michele

[vegaschristina]

I support the Obama/Biden ticket because for the first time in a long time, I find we hav a candidate that speaks to my values. Which values?

1. Pro-choice
2. Anti- war at all costs, diplomacy first
3. Healthcare should not be just for the wealthy
4. Regulation for industries that will NOT self-regulate
5. Lowering taxes those who make the least and taxing those who can most afford it.

[Scorpiosue1102]

1. His ideas for college tuition i.e. $4k and community service
2. Alternative fuels and 80% lower carbon emissions
3. For stem cell research
4. Using diplomacy, as 5 former Sec. of States have also said, with our enemies
5. teacher corps.
6. His stance on the economy
7. The fact that he taught constitutional law....We need a leader that understands that and that we cannot pick and choose things from the Geneva Convention.
8. Invest in more scientific research and make the research and development tax cut permanent
9. Expand FMLA from companies of 50 or more to 25. Including elder care in it too.
10. Expand Flexible Work Arrangements
11. Expand availability of Early Childhood Education

[[michele]]

From Barack Obama's issue (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/) pages:

Reduce Crime Recidivism by Providing Ex-Offender Support
Obama and Biden will provide job training, substance abuse and mental health counseling to ex-offenders, so that they are successfully re-integrated into society. Obama and Biden will also create a prison-to-work incentive program to improve ex-offender employment and job retention rates.

Expand Use of Drug Courts
Obama and Biden will give first-time, non-violent offenders a chance to serve their sentence, where appropriate, in the type of drug rehabilitation programs that have proven to work better than a prison term in changing bad behavior.

Rebuild the Military for 21st Century Tasks: As we rebuild our armed forces, we must not simply recreate the military of the Cold War era. Obama and Biden believe that we must build up our special operations forces, civil affairs, information operations, and other units and capabilities that remain in chronic short supply; invest in foreign language training, cultural awareness, and human intelligence and other needed counterinsurgency and stabilization skill sets; and create a more robust capacity to train, equip, and advise foreign security forces, so that local allies are better prepared to confront mutual threats.

Expand to Meet Military Needs on the Ground: Barack Obama and Joe Biden support plans to increase the size of the Army by 65,000 soldiers and the Marines by 27,000 troops. Increasing our end strength will help units retrain and re-equip properly between deployments and decrease the strain on military families.

Fully Equip Our Troops for the Missions They Face: Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe we must get vitally needed equipment to our soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines before lives are lost. We cannot repeat such failures as the delays in deployment of armored vehicles, body armor and Unmanned Aerial Vehicles that save lives on the frontlines.

Engage Our Allies in Meeting Our Common Security Challenges: America's traditional alliances, such as NATO, must be transformed and strengthened, including on common security concerns like Afghanistan, homeland security, and counterterrorism. Obama and Biden will renew alliances and ensure our allies contribute their fair share to our mutual security.

Organize to Help Our Partners and Allies in Need: An Obama-Biden administration will expand humanitarian activities that build friends and allies at the regional and local level (such as during the response to the tsunami in South and Southeast Asia), and win hearts and minds in the process.

Provide $50 billion to Jumpstart the Economy and Prevent 1 Million Americans from Losing Their Jobs: This relief would include a $25 billion State Growth Fund to prevent state and local cuts in health, education, housing, and heating assistance or counterproductive increases in property taxes, tolls or fees. The Obama-Biden relief plan will also include $25 billion in a Jobs and Growth Fund to prevent cutbacks in road and bridge maintenance and fund school re­pair - all to save more than 1 million jobs in danger of being cut.

Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families: Obama and Biden will restore fairness to the tax code and provide 150 million workers the tax relief they need. Obama and Biden will create a new "Making Work Pay" tax credit of up to $500 per person, or $1,000 per working family. The "Making Work Pay" tax credit will completely eliminate income taxes for 10 million Americans.

Eliminate Income Taxes for Seniors Making Less than $50,000: Barack Obama will eliminate all income taxation of seniors making less than $50,000 per year. This proposal will eliminate income taxes for 7 million seniors and provide these seniors with an average savings of $1,400 each year. Under the Obama-Biden plan, 27 million American seniors will also not need to file an income tax return.

Simplify Tax Filings for Middle Class Americans: Obama and Biden will dramatically simplify tax filings so that millions of Americans will be able to do their taxes in less than five minutes. Obama and Biden will ensure that the IRS uses the information it already gets from banks and employers to give taxpayers the option of pre-filled tax forms to verify, sign and return. Experts estimate that the Obama-Biden proposal will save Americans up to 200 million total hours of work and aggravation and up to $2 billion in tax preparer fees.

Fight for Fair Trade: Obama and Biden will fight for a trade policy that opens up foreign markets to support good American jobs. They will use trade agreements to spread good labor and environmental standards around the world and stand firm against agreements like the Central American Free Trade Agreement that fail to live up to those important benchmarks. Obama and Biden will also pressure the World Trade Organization to enforce trade agreements and stop countries from continuing unfair government subsidies to foreign exporters and nontariff barriers on U.S. exports.

Improve Transition Assistance: To help all workers adapt to a rapidly changing economy, Obama and Biden will update the existing system of Trade Adjustment Assistance by extending it to service industries, creating flexible education accounts to help workers retrain, and providing retraining assistance for workers in sectors of the economy vulnerable to dislocation before they lose their jobs.

End Tax Breaks for Companies that Send Jobs Overseas: Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe that companies should not get billions of dollars in tax deductions for moving their operations overseas. Obama and Biden will also fight to ensure that public contracts are awarded to companies that are committed to American workers.

Invest in our Next Generation Innovators and Job Creators: Obama and Biden will create an Advanced Manufacturing Fund to identify and invest in the most compelling advanced manufacturing strategies. The Fund will have a peer-review selection and award process based on the Michigan 21st Century Jobs Fund, a state-level initiative that has awarded over $125 million to Michigan businesses with the most innovative proposals to create new products and new jobs in the state.

Double Funding for the Manufacturing Extension Partnership: The Manufacturing Extension Partnership (MEP) works with manufacturers across the country to improve efficiency, implement new technology and strengthen company growth. This highly-successful program has engaged in more than 350,000 projects across the country and in 2006 alone, helped create and protect over 50,000 jobs. But despite this success, funding for MEP has been slashed by the Bush administration. Barack Obama and Joe Biden will double funding for the MEP so its training centers can continue to bolster the competitiveness of U.S. manufacturers.

Invest In A Clean Energy Economy And Create 5 Million New Green Jobs: Obama and Biden will invest $150 billion over 10 years to advance the next generation of biofuels and fuel infrastructure, accelerate the commercialization of plug-in hybrids, promote development of commercial scale renewable energy, invest in low emissions coal plants, and begin transition to a new digital electricity grid. The plan will also invest in America's highly-skilled manufacturing workforce and manufacturing centers to ensure that American workers have the skills and tools they need to pioneer the first wave of green technologies that will be in high demand throughout the world.

Create New Job Training Programs for Clean Technologies: The Obama-Biden plan will increase funding for federal workforce training programs and direct these programs to incorporate green technologies training, such as advanced manufacturing and weatherization training, into their efforts to help Americans find and retain stable, high-paying jobs. Obama and Biden will also create an energy-focused youth jobs program to invest in disconnected and disadvantaged youth.

Boost the Renewable Energy Sector and Create New Jobs: The Obama-Biden plan will create new federal policies, and expand existing ones, that have been proven to create new American jobs. Obama and Biden will create a federal Renewable Portfolio Standard (RPS) that will require 25 percent of American electricity be derived from renewable sources by 2025, which has the potential to create hundreds of thousands of new jobs on its own. Obama and Biden will also extend the Production Tax Credit, a credit used successfully by American farmers and investors to increase renewable energy production and create new local jobs.

New Jobs Through National Infrastructure Investment
Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe that it is critically important for the United States to rebuild its national transportation infrastructure – its highways, bridges, roads, ports, air, and train systems – to strengthen user safety, bolster our long-term competitiveness and ensure our economy continues to grow.

Create a National Infrastructure Reinvestment Bank: Barack Obama and Joe Biden will address the infrastructure challenge by creating a National Infrastructure Reinvestment Bank to expand and enhance, not supplant, existing federal transportation investments. This independent entity will be directed to invest in our nation’s most challenging transportation infrastructure needs. The Bank will receive an infusion of federal money, $60 billion over 10 years, to provide financing to transportation infrastructure projects across the nation. These projects will create up to two million new direct and indirect jobs and stimulate approximately $35 billion per year in new economic activity.

Expand the Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit: The Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit provides too little relief to families that struggle to afford child care expenses. Obama and Biden will reform the Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit by making it refundable and allowing low-income families to receive up to a 50 percent credit for their child care expenses.

Expand Flexible Work Arrangements: Obama and Biden will create a program to inform businesses about the benefits of flexible work schedules; help businesses create flexible work opportunities; and increase federal incentives for telecommuting. Obama and Biden will also make the federal government a model employer in terms of adopting flexible work schedules and permitting employees to request flexible arrangements.

Early Childhood Education
Zero to Five Plan: The Obama-Biden comprehensive "Zero to Five" plan will provide critical support to young children and their parents. Unlike other early childhood education plans, the Obama-Biden plan places key emphasis at early care and education for infants, which is essential for children to be ready to enter kindergarten. Obama and Biden will create Early Learning Challenge Grants to promote state "zero to five" efforts and help states move toward voluntary, universal pre-school.

Expand Early Head Start and Head Start: Obama and Biden will quadruple Early Head Start, increase Head Start funding and improve quality for both.

Affordable, High-Quality Child Care: Obama and Biden will also provide affordable and high-quality child care to ease the burden on working families. K-12

Reform No Child Left Behind: Obama and Biden will reform NCLB, which starts by funding the law. Obama and Biden believe teachers should not be forced to spend the academic year preparing students to fill in bubbles on standardized tests. He will improve the assessments used to track student progress to measure readiness for college and the workplace and improve student learning in a timely, individualized manner. Obama and Biden will also improve NCLB's accountability system so that we are supporting schools that need improvement, rather than punishing them.
Support High-Quality Schools and Close Low-Performing Charter Schools: Barack Obama and Joe Biden will double funding for the Federal Charter School Program to support the creation of more successful charter schools. An Obama-Biden administration will provide this expanded charter school funding only to states that improve accountability for charter schools, allow for interventions in struggling charter schools and have a clear process for closing down chronically underperforming charter schools. An Obama-Biden administration will also prioritize supporting states that help the most successful charter schools to expand to serve more students.
Make Math and Science Education a National Priority: Obama and Biden will recruit math and science degree graduates to the teaching profession and will support efforts to help these teachers learn from professionals in the field. They will also work to ensure that all children have access to a strong science curriculum at all grade levels.
Address the Dropout Crisis: Obama and Biden will address the dropout crisis by passing his legislation to provide funding to school districts to invest in intervention strategies in middle school - strategies such as personal academic plans, teaching teams, parent involvement, mentoring, intensive reading and math instruction, and extended learning time.
Expand High-Quality Afterschool Opportunities: Obama and Biden will double funding for the main federal support for afterschool programs, the 21st Century Learning Centers program, to serve one million more children.
Support College Outreach Programs: Obama and Biden support outreach programs like GEAR UP, TRIO and Upward Bound to encourage more young people from low-income families to consider and prepare for college.
Support College Credit Initiatives: Barack Obama and Joe Biden will create a national "Make College A Reality" initiative that has a bold goal to increase students taking AP or college-level classes nationwide 50 percent by 2016, and will build on Obama's bipartisan proposal in the U.S. Senate to provide grants for students seeking college level credit at community colleges if their school does not provide those resources.
Support English Language Learners: Obama and Biden support transitional bilingual education and will help Limited English Proficient students get ahead by holding schools accountable for making sure these students complete school.Recruit, Prepare, Retain, and Reward America's Teachers

Recruit Teachers: Obama and Biden will create new Teacher Service Scholarships that will cover four years of undergraduate or two years of graduate teacher education, including high-quality alternative programs for mid-career recruits in exchange for teaching for at least four years in a high-need field or location.
Prepare Teachers: Obama and Biden will require all schools of education to be accredited. Obama and Biden will also create a voluntary national performance assessment so we can be sure that every new educator is trained and ready to walk into the classroom and start teaching effectively. Obama and Biden will also create Teacher Residency Programs that will supply 30,000 exceptionally well-prepared recruits to high-need schools.
Retain Teachers: To support our teachers, the Obama-Biden plan will expand mentoring programs that pair experienced teachers with new recruits. They will also provide incentives to give teachers paid common planning time so they can collaborate to share best practices.
Reward Teachers: Obama and Biden will promote new and innovative ways to increase teacher pay that are developed with teachers, not imposed on them. Districts will be able to design programs that reward accomplished educators who serve as a mentor to new teachers with a salary increase. Districts can reward teachers who work in underserved places like rural areas and inner cities. And if teachers consistently excel in the classroom, that work can be valued and rewarded as well.Higher Education

Create the American Opportunity Tax Credit: Obama and Biden will make college affordable for all Americans by creating a new American Opportunity Tax Credit. This universal and fully refundable credit will ensure that the first $4,000 of a college education is completely free for most Americans, and will cover two-thirds the cost of tuition at the average public college or university and make community college tuition completely free for most students. Recipients of the credit will be required to conduct 100 hours of community service.Shine the Light on Federal Contracts, Tax Breaks and Earmarks

Create a Public “Contracts and Influence” Database: As president, Obama will create a "contracts and influence" database that will disclose how much federal contractors spend on lobbying, and what contracts they are getting and how well they complete them.

Expose Special Interest Tax Breaks to Public Scrutiny: Barack Obama and Joe Biden will ensure that any tax breaks for corporate recipients — or tax earmarks — are also publicly available on the Internet in an easily searchable format.

Sunlight Before Signing: Too often bills are rushed through Congress and to the president before the public has the opportunity to review them. As president, Obama will not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House website for five days.

Shine Light on Earmarks and Pork Barrel Spending: Obama's Transparency and Integrity in Earmarks Act will shed light on all earmarks by disclosing the name of the legislator who asked for each earmark, along with a written justification, 72 hours before they can be approved by the full Senate.

Restore Fiscal Discipline to Washington

Reinstate PAYGO Rules: Obama and Biden believe that a critical step in restoring fiscal discipline is enforcing pay-as-you-go (PAYGO) budgeting rules which require new spending commitments or tax changes to be paid for by cuts to other programs or new revenue.

Cut Pork Barrel Spending: Obama introduced and passed bipartisan legislation that would require more disclosure and transparency for special-interest earmarks. Obama and Biden believe that spending that cannot withstand public scrutiny cannot be justified. Obama and Biden will slash earmarks to no greater than year 1994 levels and ensure all spending decisions are open to the public.

End Wasteful Government Spending: Obama and Biden will stop funding wasteful, obsolete federal government programs that make no financial sense. Obama and Biden have called for an end to subsidies for oil and gas companies that are enjoying record profits, as well as the elimination of subsidies to the private student loan industry which has repeatedly used unethical business practices. Obama and Biden will also tackle wasteful spending in the Medicare program.

End Tax Haven Abuse: Building on his bipartisan work in the Senate, Obama will give the Treasury Department the tools it needs to stop the abuse of tax shelters and offshore tax havens and help close the $350 billion tax gap between taxes owed and taxes paid.

Close Special Interest Corporate Loopholes: Obama and Biden will level the playing field for all businesses by eliminating special-interest loopholes and deductions, such as those for the oil and gas industry.

************************************************** *
There's more, but the error message is telling me to keep it at 20,000 characters!! I had to delete a lot!!!!

:) Michele

[lunafaerie]

I'm voting for Obama/Biden because I believe they in their platform, mostly. Are there things I dislike? Sure, but I think they represent a huge shift in the way this country thinks and I believe that is the shift we need.

Issues most important to me:

1. Health Care (before the financial collapse)
2. Income disparity / declining middle class
3. Corporate greed and corruption
4. Clean energy independence, emphasis on clean (supporting new green industry)
5. Education
5. Diplomacy before sending out our troops
6. Restoring US respect in the international community

I think all of those things will end up helping us in the current financial situation because of the following reasons:

1. Health care is a burden on our people, if more people were relieved of extraordinary health care costs, they'd have more money to pay their mortgages and drive the economy.
2. When the middle class has money to spend it will drive the economy. If we give more the upper class right now, they'll just hide it away until the market corrects itself, quickest way to get money back into the system, give it to those who NEED to spend it.
3. Goes without saying I think, but if you "reign" in corruption, we'll hopefully avoid another insane situation
4. If we open up a new industry, those displaced by the current recession will be able to find new jobs to make us energy independent, and we can move beyond oil.
6. Without educated children, we have no hope for the future
7. We don't need another costly burdensome war right now, diplomacy will cost us little and will go a long way.
8. If the international world has more confidence in America I believe it will only help us financially.

[Scorpiosue1102]

*shakes head yes to every point* I guess I like that he looks outside the box on family issues and so much more. I also like that he wants fathers to take responsibility, well, for those that don't already.

[lunafaerie]

*shakes head yes to every point* I guess I like that he looks outside the box on family issues and so much more. I also like that he wants fathers to take responsibility, well, for those that don't already.

Oh I actually adore Obama's views on family and the role of fathers. I was raised by a single father so Biden really pulled my heart strings on Thursday night too.

[lsl_scrapper]

addWell...I'll jump in here. I can address some of the specifics you all addressed later, but let me start by saying that I will not be voting for him without even reading his platform. Platforms are just words. I do not like him as a person. I do not like his cronies and 'mentors' in IL politics. I do not like the way he misrepresents himself as part of a younger generation than he actually is. (I don't know if he still claims it, but when he announced his campaign in Springfield he alluded to the fact that he was the first post-baby boomer candidate. Not true...he's older than my brother....a late boomer. But it sounded good to the young audience he was trying to appeal to). I don't like the fact that I emailed asked for his position on an issue regarding the state of IL and instead got back a canned response telling me why he wanted to end the war in Iraq.

If he can't answers a direct question, and if he can't be trusted to give a straight answer regardless of the audience, his words are just that....words. It doesn't matter how pretty they are....I can't rely on them. So I will not be voting for him.

Oh...and I'd much rather be called a non-supporter. I don't think I'm really a detractor....that seems so negative and I think I'm a little more neutral.....not supporting McCain either.

[Gina.Maria]

I do not like the way he misrepresents himself as part of a younger generation than he actually is. (I don't know if he still claims it, but when he announced his campaign in Springfield he alluded to the fact that he was the first post-baby boomer candidate. Not true...he's older than my brother....a late boomer. But it sounded good to the young audience he was trying to appeal to).

Most people born in the 60s don't identify with the Baby Boomer generation regardless of the specific start and end dates of the "Boom." There's just too wide a spread from the 40s to the 60s. With Gen-X being such a compact group and closer in age and ideals, it's more likely that late Boomers identify with that demographic.

[NellieRose]

I'm voting for Obama/Biden because I believe they in their platform, mostly. Are there things I dislike? Sure, but I think they represent a huge shift in the way this country thinks and I believe that is the shift we need.

Issues most important to me:

1. Health Care (before the financial collapse)
2. Income disparity / declining middle class
3. Corporate greed and corruption
4. Clean energy independence, emphasis on clean (supporting new green industry)
5. Education
5. Diplomacy before sending out our troops
6. Restoring US respect in the international community

I think all of those things will end up helping us in the current financial situation because of the following reasons:

1. Health care is a burden on our people, if more people were relieved of extraordinary health care costs, they'd have more money to pay their mortgages and drive the economy.
2. When the middle class has money to spend it will drive the economy. If we give more the upper class right now, they'll just hide it away until the market corrects itself, quickest way to get money back into the system, give it to those who NEED to spend it.
3. Goes without saying I think, but if you "reign" in corruption, we'll hopefully avoid another insane situation
4. If we open up a new industry, those displaced by the current recession will be able to find new jobs to make us energy independent, and we can move beyond oil.
6. Without educated children, we have no hope for the future
7. We don't need another costly burdensome war right now, diplomacy will cost us little and will go a long way.
8. If the international world has more confidence in America I believe it will only help us financially.


What she said! Thank you Tania for saving me a lot of typing. :D

[ccouch]

I will NOT be voting for Obama for a number of reasons. Here are a few:
1) I am in favor of smaller, much smaller, government.
2) I do not support a nationalized (or government implemented, whatever you want to call it) healthcare plan.
3) I do not like his foreign policies.
4) I do not see any "fairness" (Joe Biden) in taxing the crap out of the wealthy. Joe can call their plan "fair" all he wants, but a redistribution of wealth is anything but. I really am more supportive of a Fair Tax.
5) I don't agree with adding more and more social programs and increasing our budget.
6) His experience, or lack thereof.
7) I do not agree with abortion, and vote Pro-Life.
8) I disagree with the notion that the oil companies should be reprimanded for making a profit. I don't support the windfall profits tax.
9) I really believe in personal responsibility. I believe we're granted the right to pursue happiness, not the guarantee of it.


Seriously.....this list could go on and on. I "fundamentally disagree" with just about every position this man has. Although McCain isn't my favorite, my vote will be for the Republican party and will be more of an anti-Obama vote than a pro-McCain one.

[Glueless Media]

I will NOT be voting for Obama for a number of reasons. Here are a few:
1) I am in favor of smaller, much smaller, government.
2) I do not support a nationalized (or government implemented, whatever you want to call it) healthcare plan.
3) I do not like his foreign policies.
4) I do not see any "fairness" (Joe Biden) in taxing the crap out of the wealthy. Joe can call their plan "fair" all he wants, but a redistribution of wealth is anything but. I really am more supportive of a Fair Tax.
5) I don't agree with adding more and more social programs and increasing our budget.
6) His experience, or lack thereof.(both sides has this problem)
7) I do not agree with abortion, and vote Pro-Life.
8) I disagree with the notion that the oil companies should be reprimanded for making a profit. I don't support the windfall profits tax.
9) I really believe in personal responsibility. I believe we're granted the right to pursue happiness, not the guarantee of it.


Seriously.....this list could go on and on. I "fundamentally disagree" with just about every position this man has. Although McCain isn't my favorite, my vote will be for the Republican party and will be more of an anti-Obama vote than a pro-McCain one.

AMEN! on underlined and many more issues at hand I feel that my very conservative background will not allow me to even fathom thinking of a vote for Obama!

[Scorpiosue1102]

The fact that Exxon/Mobil had a $12 billion profit in a quarter why isn't our gas cheaper? How on earth can they even face the American public with that. Then McCain wants to give them a $4b tax break???? Why? How about the $4b goes towards lowering gas prices?

[kjbstevens]

Obama: McCain's tax plan would give oil companies "an additional $4 billion in tax breaks."
Fact check: McCain's plan entails cutting the overall corporate tax rate and does not represent a special $4 billion in tax breaks for the oil companies. Both Obama and McCain have proposed plans that eliminate tax loopholes for oil and gas companies, according to the Associated Press.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/articles/2008/09/27/checking_the_facts/

Once again it's another of those half truth type things both of them have been putting out there.

[mama_pajama]

2) I do not support a nationalized (or government implemented, whatever you want to call it) healthcare plan.

But you're okay with McCain's healthcare plan? People who have health insurance through their employers will pay more in taxes in order to give tax credits to people who don't have insurance? Under Obama's healthcare plan, no one who makes under $250k a year will see an increase in taxes. With McCain, my family will see an increase in income taxes. Great Republican values there.

[Scorpiosue1102]

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/articles/2008/09/27/checking_the_facts/

Once again it's another of those half truth type things both of them have been putting out there.

So do you have no problem paying close to $4 a gallon for gas while they have $12 billion in profits a quarter and close to $45 billion in profits for the year? Even if there are not tax cuts or tax proposals by either camp this makes me mad as all get out.

[Scorpiosue1102]

I will NOT be voting for Obama for a number of reasons. Here are a few:

5) I don't agree with adding more and more social programs and increasing our budget.




And that's ok. No one has to use any of the social policies. If people don't like more social policies they don't have to use FMLA to take care of an ailing parent, they don't have to use money that goes towards Early Childhood education, they also do not have to use flexible job programs. It is all about choice.

[Gina.Maria]

So do you have no problem paying close to $4 a gallon for gas while they have $12 billion in profits a quarter and close to $45 billion in profits for the year? Even if there are not tax cuts or tax proposals by either camp this makes me mad as all get out.

And much of the profit comes from the tax breaks and incentives we've given them. Do you understand that much of the public dollars for alternative energy research actually goes to oil companies? Because "they know energy better than anyone."

[Scorpiosue1102]

Interesting enough, Alaska has oil windfall taxes. I have to say this is probably the one item I agree with Palin about.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008103325_alaskatax07.html

[Scorpiosue1102]

Here's a really good energy plan:


Reduce the annual growth rate in our energy demand to less than two percent.
Reduce gasoline consumption by ten percent below its current level.
Cut in half the portion of United States oil which is imported, from a potential level of 16 million barrels to six million barrels a day.
Establish a strategic petroleum reserve of one billion barrels, more than six months' supply.
Increase our coal production by about two thirds to more than 1 billion tons a year.
Insulate 90 percent of American homes and all new buildings.
Use solar energy in more than two and one-half million houses.
This was written in 1977 by Jimmy Carter. Maybe Jimmy Carter had it right.

[kjbstevens]

For anyone interested Obama has bought an entire channel on Dish Network on 5890 we just saw on our listing.

[kjbstevens]

So do you have no problem paying close to $4 a gallon for gas while they have $12 billion in profits a quarter and close to $45 billion in profits for the year? Even if there are not tax cuts or tax proposals by either camp this makes me mad as all get out.

Either way it's a hard choice. It's better than them picking up and leaving our country to go elsewhere which is what companies will do if they are forced to keep paying more money out and making less profits. I grew up in Appalchia which got it's final kick into the dumps during the late 90s when all the factories left because they didn't want to pay the taxes there.

[Gina.Maria]

Hindsight is 20/20. Of course Jimmy Carter had it right. But then Reagan and his "trickle-down" theories took over and plunged us into the largest deficit we'd ever seen. And Bush Sr. just continued that and increased taxes by the highest levels we'd ever seen ("read my lips") When Clinton left office, he left us with a balanced budget and a surplus - a surplus! - that Bush Jr. turned around and mailed out in checks to everyone. Now, we're deeply in debt, on the brink of financial collapse and somehow thinking that the party who drove us to it will save us from it? I'm just wondering whose legs get broken when we don't pay our loans on time.

[NellieRose]

For anyone interested Obama has bought an entire channel on Dish Network on 5890 we just saw on our listing.

That should be broadcasting on Channel 73 on Dish...one more display of the campaign's media savvy ways of getting the info to the people.

[diannerigdon]

...If people don't like more social policies they don't have to use FMLA to take care of an ailing parent, they don't have to use money that goes towards Early Childhood education, they also do not have to use flexible job programs. It is all about choice.

I think you may have missed the point. We want the choice, just like you probably do, to have a say in what programs are funded with our tax dollars. Choosing not to use them is not the issue (and really that comment was more of an argumentative statement than constructive point) - but rather the question is should those programs be there in the first place, especially if funded by my tax dollars? So this obviously plays a part in my voting. If one candidate proposes programs that I do not think should be in existence and/or funded with my tax dollars, I will not support that candidate. (Obviously there are more layers than that to my voting decisions, but I oversimplified to make the point. ;) )

[ccouch]

I think you may have missed the point. We want the choice, just like you probably do, to have a say in what programs are funded with our tax dollars. Choosing not to use them is not the issue (and really that comment was more of an argumentative statement than constructive point) - but rather the question is should those programs be there in the first place, especially if funded by my tax dollars? So this obviously plays a part in my voting. If one candidate proposes programs that I do not think should be in existence and/or funded with my tax dollars, I will not support that candidate. (Obviously there are more layers than that to my voting decisions, but I oversimplified to make the point. ;) )

Thanks for your answer - - ditto that :)

[mama_pajama]

I think you may have missed the point. We want the choice, just like you probably do, to have a say in what programs are funded with our tax dollars. Choosing not to use them is not the issue (and really that comment was more of an argumentative statement than constructive point) - but rather the question is should those programs be there in the first place, especially if funded by my tax dollars? So this obviously plays a part in my voting. If one candidate proposes programs that I do not think should be in existence and/or funded with my tax dollars, I will not support that candidate. (Obviously there are more layers than that to my voting decisions, but I oversimplified to make the point. ;) )

I know this is also oversimplified, but given the choice, I'd much rather have my tax dollars go to healthcare here than building infrastructure in Iraq.

[Gina.Maria]

I know this is also oversimplified, but given the choice, I'd much rather have my tax dollars go to healthcare here than building infrastructure in Iraq.
:word

[ccouch]

But you're okay with McCain's healthcare plan? People who have health insurance through their employers will pay more in taxes in order to give tax credits to people who don't have insurance? Under Obama's healthcare plan, no one who makes under $250k a year will see an increase in taxes. With McCain, my family will see an increase in income taxes. Great Republican values there.

My not agreeing with Obama doesn't necessarily mean that I am "okay" with every bit of McCain's platform. As I stated in my post, I am more anti-Obama than pro-McCain. In terms of healthcare, I just flat out do not agree with a nationalized program.

[lsl_scrapper]

Most people born in the 60s don't identify with the Baby Boomer generation regardless of the specific start and end dates of the "Boom." There's just too wide a spread from the 40s to the 60s. With Gen-X being such a compact group and closer in age and ideals, it's more likely that late Boomers identify with that demographic.

Not sure which 60's babies you are referring too, but I guarantee you that the early 60's babies I know definitely consider themselves boomers.

[ayaandjudah]

thank you for eloquently stating exactly how I feel.I support the Obama/Biden ticket because for the first time in a long time, I find we hav a candidate that speaks to my values. Which values?

1. Pro-choice
2. Anti- war at all costs, diplomacy first
3. Healthcare should not be just for the wealthy
4. Regulation for industries that will NOT self-regulate
5. Lowering taxes those who make the least and taxing those who can most afford it.

[tsaria]

Both my mothers were born in the earlier 60's, but they don't consider themselves boomers.

[JCSimon]

Not sure which 60's babies you are referring too, but I guarantee you that the early 60's babies I know definitely consider themselves boomers.


LOL...and *none* that I know think of themselves that way. My youngest sister and brother were born in 1964 & 1966....neither of them nor any of their friends think of themselves as boomers. When they refer to their age group, they're more likely to call themselves in-betweeners. :lol

[Scorpiosue1102]

I think you may have missed the point. We want the choice, just like you probably do, to have a say in what programs are funded with our tax dollars. Choosing not to use them is not the issue (and really that comment was more of an argumentative statement than constructive point) - but rather the question is should those programs be there in the first place, especially if funded by my tax dollars? So this obviously plays a part in my voting. If one candidate proposes programs that I do not think should be in existence and/or funded with my tax dollars, I will not support that candidate. (Obviously there are more layers than that to my voting decisions, but I oversimplified to make the point. ;) )

I do understand, but a broad statement of not liking his social policies tells me nothing. What policies do you not like? Why not? I don't like McCain's healthcare policy because I do not think $5k will even dent a single policy.

My tax dollars also go to companies like Halliburton, the Iraq war, Guantanamo Bay so for me FMLA for elder care is worth it for me. Those social policies me something to me.

[Scorpiosue1102]

I know this is also oversimplified, but given the choice, I'd much rather have my tax dollars go to healthcare here than building infrastructure in Iraq.

Absolutely especially when Iraq has billions put aside. I have no problem helping them, but Iraq is like a freshman in college. The kids will still ask for money until you tell them they have to use their own for pizza and beer. Iraq will use our money and troops until we say no more. I, for one, do not want my son in Iraq come 13 more years.

[mama_pajama]

My not agreeing with Obama doesn't necessarily mean that I am "okay" with every bit of McCain's platform. As I stated in my post, I am more anti-Obama than pro-McCain. In terms of healthcare, I just flat out do not agree with a nationalized program.

With Obama's plan, you aren't being forced to have anything to do with the nationalized program. It is paid for by people who make over $250k a year, and you can choose to stick with your employer's coverage or purchase your own coverage. No one HAS to accept the coverage he plans on offering. Assuming you don't make $250k a year, you won't have to pay for it, and assuming you already have coverage you're happy with, you won't have to take advantage of it. It's a win-win for you. ;)

[4noisyboys]

Not sure which 60's babies you are referring too, but I guarantee you that the early 60's babies I know definitely consider themselves boomers.

I was born in 1961, and I definitely don't consider myself a boomer. My husband was born in 1954, and he considers himself one.

[Kazadoodle]

I was born in 1961, and I definitely don't consider myself a boomer. My husband was born in 1954, and he considers himself one.

Born in 1964, don't consider myself a boomer either. I've always thought of the baby boomers being born in the late 40s to early 50s.

[ccouch]

With Obama's plan, you aren't being forced to have anything to do with the nationalized program. It is paid for by people who make over $250k a year, and you can choose to stick with your employer's coverage or purchase your own coverage. No one HAS to accept the coverage he plans on offering. Assuming you don't make $250k a year, you won't have to pay for it, and assuming you already have coverage you're happy with, you won't have to take advantage of it. It's a win-win for you. ;)

Just because a program might not *directly* affect me doesn't mean that I'll support it. Besides, I don't see any kind of a winning situation with bigger government. Plain and simple.

We don't fall into the $250k+ category now, and likely won't ever. I do still stick to my belief that raising taxes on the wealthy to benefit those who make less is anything but fair. It is redistribution of wealth and unfairly penalizes success.

[DirtyFeetDesigns (heb1976)]

What policies do you not like? Why not? I don't like McCain's healthcare policy because I do not think $5k will even dent a single policy.


Obama's nationalized health plan will be more like what you receive when you go to the VA. My husband goes regularly for his leg and let me tell you, it is so sad. When my husband goes, he has to take the full day off of work. He has to be there at 9AM and doesn't get in to see the doctor until 2PM. People sit in the waiting rooms forever. When you call to make an appt., you can't get in within the week. So if you have a cold - it will be gone by the time you get to see a doctor. He went in for a broken leg about 5 years ago. He had to go to the main office for x-rays. We were there from 8:30AM until 4PM - when they finally got the results back and said it was broken. Then he had to wait until the next day to get a cast put on it.

Here is some info:

* Nationalized health insurance does not insure equal access to the health care system. Elderly people in Canada and the United Kingdom report much more difficulty in obtaining health care than U.S. seniors. While New Zealand's guidelines for treatment of end state renal failure imply that age should not be the sole factor in determining eligibility, they state that "in usual circumstances, people over 75 should not be accepted." To the terminal misfortune of that nation's elderly renal failure patients, New Zealand has no private dialysis facilities.

* Removing the medical sector from the free enterprise system tends to reduce the overall quality of health care. Study-upon-study has shown the quality of health care is typically higher in the U.S. than in any other nation, including those with nationalized health insurance. The United States has lower breast and prostate cancer mortality rates than New Zealand, the United Kingdom, Germany, Canada, France and Australia.

* Germany, Sweden and Australia are now establishing free-market alternatives in an attempt to alleviate problems caused by their nationalized health care systems. Indeed, these countries are learning that the best course for provision of quality health care is not more patient power rather than more government power.

Do we need something in place for those who cannot afford it - YES! Do I agree on McCain's plan - NO!

[mama_pajama]

Just because a program might not *directly* affect me doesn't mean that I'll support it. Besides, I don't see any kind of a winning situation with bigger government. Plain and simple.

We don't fall into the $250k+ category now, and likely won't ever. I do still stick to my belief that raising taxes on the wealthy to benefit those who make less is anything but fair. It is redistribution of wealth and unfairly penalizes success.

What is McCain's plan then? Changing insurance premiums into taxable income in order to give tax credits to people without insurance? Isn't that an example of people who make more being forced to pay for people who make less? I fail to see how his plan is anything but redistribution of wealth.

[DirtyFeetDesigns (heb1976)]

Something else I found interesting:
In the 941 days that Barack Obama has been in the Senate, he has requested 931 million dollars in pork. About a million dollars a day.

In the 7000+ days that John McCain has been in the Senate, he has asked for - are you ready for this? - he has requested ZERO dollars for pork.

[Scorpiosue1102]

Per FACTCHECK at CNN on "Nationalized Healthcare":

Obama's plan would increase government's role in health care, and mandate coverage for children, but would include existing health care systems and not mandate universal coverage. There is no evidence in the plan to support Palin's claim that health care would be "taken over by the feds."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/04/fact-check-does-obama-back-a-universal-government-run-health-system/#more-22637

[Chreamps]

Yes, those earmarks are interesting.

Obama, isn't running his campaign on eliminating earmarks. Here's a link (http://answercenter.barackobama.com/cgi-bin/barackobama.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=172&p_created=1205426026&p_sid=TNlxoC-i&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX 3Jvd19jbnQ9MSwxJnBfcHJvZHM9JnBfY2F0cz) to a list of his earmark requests for 2006/2007.

McCain is running on eliminating earmarks and he did just sign the $700 Billion bailout which was loaded. Here's an interesting article (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/the_budget_according_to_mccain_part_i.html) about earmarks and his budget from factcheck.org.

ETA: Love the name "dirtyfeetdesigns" by the way.

[Microferk ~ Miki Ferkul]

Not sure which 60's babies you are referring too, but I guarantee you that the early 60's babies I know definitely consider themselves boomers.

1963-er here who definitely relates more with Gen-Xers than Boomers. Never been a Baby Boomer myself, LOL.

[mama_pajama]

Yeah, as an Arizonan, I'm not giddy about McCain never asking for earmarks. A lot of that money goes to good programs within the Senator's home state. I feel like he was under-representing us in order to further his career goals by not requesting funds for our state. Especially when I see some of the great programs other Senators were getting for their constituents. He may not have requested funds for Arizona, but he sure did sign plenty of bills that included money for other states.

[DirtyFeetDesigns (heb1976)]

Yes, those earmarks are interesting.

Obama, isn't running his campaign on eliminating earmarks. Here's a link (http://answercenter.barackobama.com/cgi-bin/barackobama.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=172&p_created=1205426026&p_sid=TNlxoC-i&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX 3Jvd19jbnQ9MSwxJnBfcHJvZHM9JnBfY2F0cz) to a list of his earmark requests for 2006/2007.

McCain is running on eliminating earmarks and he did just sign the $700 Billion bailout which was loaded. Here's an interesting article (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/the_budget_according_to_mccain_part_i.html) about earmarks and his budget from factcheck.org.

ETA: Love the name "dirtyfeetdesigns" by the way.

Oh I agree. I just thought that was interesting info. I saw that there was an earmark for SEC. 503. EXEMPTION FROM EXCISE TAX FOR CERTAIN WOODEN ARROWS DESIGNED FOR USE BY CHILDREN. HA! I do not support Obama or McCain ... I think they both suck. I am voting for the lesser of 2 evils - except I haven't figured out who that is yet.

[DirtyFeetDesigns (heb1976)]

Yeah, as an Arizonan, I'm not giddy about McCain never asking for earmarks. A lot of that money goes to good programs within the Senator's home state. I feel like he was under-representing us in order to further his career goals by not requesting funds for our state. Especially when I see some of the great programs other Senators were getting for their constituents. He may not have requested funds for Arizona, but he sure did sign plenty of bills that included money for other states.

The problems aren't the earmarks itself - you are right, some of them do some good. Altho I still am agianst them. But funding for the creation of a waterless urinal? Or creating lobster flavored doggie treats? Come now.

[Chreamps]

I am voting for the lesser of 2 evils - except I haven't figured out who that is yet.Know what you mean - you have to dig through all the **&%$# to find the truth/facts.

But funding for the creation of a waterless urinal? Or creating lobster flavored doggie treats?Hey one day water may be more expensive than oil and don't you like dogs? I mean, come on my dogs would love those (LOL).:spin:spin:spin

[Scorpiosue1102]

McCain did ask for pork barrel projects when he was a Navy lobbyist to the tune of $2 billion, then and equal to $7 billion now, to replace the Navy carrier Midway.

[vegaschristina]

The problems aren't the earmarks itself - you are right, some of them do some good. Altho I still am agianst them. But funding for the creation of a waterless urinal? Or creating lobster flavored doggie treats? Come now.

I agree, some earmarks are done for good, but there has to be a reasonable limit to the stupidity. Key word there is REASONABLE. Cutting off all earmarks isn't reasonable. Some earmarks go toward positive and helpful things.

[SweetPolly]

I have still not decided on who to vote for. Not really thrilled with either choice. I do like the stand on Education and Teachers.

[ccouch]

What is McCain's plan then? Changing insurance premiums into taxable income in order to give tax credits to people without insurance? Isn't that an example of people who make more being forced to pay for people who make less? I fail to see how his plan is anything but redistribution of wealth.

I guess the difference would be that ALL people who have insurance plans through their employer would be taxed. Regardless of whether you made 50k or 250k. If you have an insurance policy through your employer, it would be considered part of your taxable income. Everyone would be shouldering the burden of taking care of the uninsured, I guess, rather than just the "wealthy."

[ccubed]

Yeah, as an Arizonan, I'm not giddy about McCain never asking for earmarks. A lot of that money goes to good programs within the Senator's home state. I feel like he was under-representing us in order to further his career goals by not requesting funds for our state. Especially when I see some of the great programs other Senators were getting for their constituents. He may not have requested funds for Arizona, but he sure did sign plenty of bills that included money for other states.

:clap

Thank goodness that not even the conservative Barry Goldwater was against asking for projects beneficial to the long term well-being of those he represented nor was he against working with democrat Mo Udall in securing the Central Arizona Project - - one of the biggest public works projects in U.S. history. I could not imagine life in central Arizona if there had not been this kind of vision. :) Again, thank heavens McCain was not representing Arizona at that time.

I can see using judgement in regard to asking congress for money but to not represent your state's interests at all - - geesh! :shrug

[Gina.Maria]

Not sure which 60's babies you are referring too, but I guarantee you that the early 60's babies I know definitely consider themselves boomers.

I have friends born throughout the 60s and those born before 1965 consider themselves part of the same generation as those born after 1965. I think, for many, the 60s should have been given it's own generational identification.

LOL...and *none* that I know think of themselves that way. My youngest sister and brother were born in 1964 & 1966....neither of them nor any of their friends think of themselves as boomers. When they refer to their age group, they're more likely to call themselves in-betweeners. :lol
Well, the one born in 1966 would be right because 1965 was the beginning of Generation X.