Anonoymous Poll: If the election were held today, who would you vote for the USA Pre

[Florida Cindy]

Anonoymous Poll: If the election were held today, who would you vote for the USA President?

[Florida Cindy]

BTT
Thanks for voting!

[dgreenshield]

I honestly cannot say who I would vote for right now...which is a bad thing since I have my absentee ballot and need to get it in the mail back to the US. I think I am just disgusted with all of it!

[Melanie Colosimo (lemonyr)]

Very interesting how close the numbers are!!!

[Tiffikat]

Interesting how close the results are.

[KattyZak]

dang - dead even! Interesting. Last poll here had McCain winning or did the last time I looked.

[Natalie]

I am voting today - just got my official ballot in the mail. :D

[ashtina]

I chose Obama/Biden but I also am thinking of voting "other" still at this point. However I have definitely decided now that I will not be voting for McCain/Palin.

[Meme2Gracie]

I am conservative, pro-life, pro-American, and I'm
VOTING FOR OBAMA-BIDEN!!! We cannot stand four
more years of the mess our country is in! WE NEED
CHANGE!

[Gina.Maria]

I am conservative, pro-life, pro-American, and I'm
VOTING FOR OBAMA-BIDEN!!! We cannot stand four
more years of the mess our country is in! WE NEED
CHANGE!

Thank you.

[tammy1999]

Nice to see another person blaiming everything on Bush again!! You need to look up how the economic crises started, back in the 70's and also see that the Dems. wouldn't let the Repb. have Fannie and Freddie checked out. Its documented and been posted more than once in this forum.

If you want to blame, look at the last 2 years of the Dems. running Congress and that they are at an all time low of 9% approval rate in this Country. Why don't you start there.

[mama_pajama]

Nice to see another person blaiming everything on Bush again!! You need to look up how the economic crises started, back in the 70's and also see that the Dems. wouldn't let the Repb. have Fannie and Freddie checked out. Its documented and been posted more than once in this forum.

If you want to blame, look at the last 2 years of the Dems. running Congress and that they are at an all time low of 9% approval rate in this Country. Why don't you start there.

I'm not the poster you're referring to, but I do think we need a change from the Bush administration. That opinion has absolutely nothing to do with our current economic crisis. His presidency has been full of lies, deceit, corruption, mismanagement, bad decisions, etc etc etc. Just because he's not to blame for one crisis doesn't negate all that he IS to blame for.

[Tiffikat]

I'm not the poster you're referring to, but I do think we need a change from the Bush administration. That opinion has absolutely nothing to do with our current economic crisis. His presidency has been full of lies, deceit, corruption, mismanagement, bad decisions, etc etc etc. Just because he's not to blame for one crisis doesn't negate all that he IS to blame for.

This.

[opeysmama]

I am conservative, pro-life, pro-American, and I'm VOTING FOR OBAMA-BIDEN!!! We cannot stand four more years of the mess our country is in! WE NEED
CHANGE!

This is disappointing. Obama is not the change we need. Other than promising to raise our taxes (and as a business owner yes RAISE our taxes, not to mention capital gains...) I can't think of one other change he's lined up to do.

Oh wait there is the Freedom of Choice Act, that was a huge promise he made to Planned Parenthood, your tax dollars in motion. He promised THEM his first mission in office will be to preserve the right to kill your unborn, and also preserve the right to let your baby die should it somehow miraculously survive a botch abortion. Then there is that partial birth abortion thing...I cannot even stomach the visions of that one.

He calls it "womens health issues," but its more rightly the baby's death issues. But the politically correct term sounds so much sweeter than the raw, ugly, truth, and people jump right on it. Either jump on it or totally ignore it.

Then there is that promise backed up by his actual vote to cut funds for our troops. That one is awful.

Changes like these, wow, no thanks.

[Tiffikat]

You know, I would love to hear you say what is so great about McCain and Palin. Perhaps you would get more people to agree with you that way. Bad mouthing Obama and talking down to people the way you are just doesn't seem to be doing McCain/Palin any good in my opinion.

If you haven't heard many times over in the news many of the people that are Independent or Undecided would rather hear what each candidate is going to do and why people ARE supporting that candidate instead of why the other candidate is so bad. It just doesn't do any good to say over and over "This person is sooooo bad" without ever saying why the other person is better. It makes it seem like you cannot come up with a reason why the other person is better. Many times I have seen people ask you in various posts why you are supporting McCain or what McCain is doing that is different. I have yet to see a response (although I could have missed one because this forum does tend to move a bit faster than I am able to check it).

[ccouch]

My vote is going to McCain/Palin. Now, I'm not super-crazy about him or all of his ideas (although I DO tend to vote conservative), but my vote is more of an anti-Obama one. I think his ideas of change are a bad ones, and that he would be toxic to our country.

Although I understand your request that those voting for McCain give reason and help to educate those undecided or independent voters, please understand that there are some of us that simply dislike Obama enough to vote opposite him on the ticket :)

Obviously, I'm not speaking for opeysmama, just throwing my two cents in :)

[dodo]

My vote is going to McCain/Palin. Now, I'm not super-crazy about him or all of his ideas (although I DO tend to vote conservative), but my vote is more of an anti-Obama one. I think his ideas of change are a bad ones, and that he would be toxic to our country.

Although I understand your request that those voting for McCain give reason and help to educate those undecided or independent voters, please understand that there are some of us that simply dislike Obama enough to vote opposite him on the ticket :)

Obviously, I'm not speaking for opeysmama, just throwing my two cents in :)

Exactly what is it about Obama's idea's is it that you don't like
lower taxes
better education
better healthcare
or is it because he is black because that is what it sounds like when you have no examples of what it is that you don't like

[Rondas Scrap Bits]

I am a die hard Republican ~ alot of what we are going through now is not all from the Bush admin... so many times the present President gets the blame when in fact it is roll down from past Presidents.... so with all of that said McCain/Palin all the way

[time4scrappin]

I am TERRIFIED about the idea of Obama being President. How can someone running for an AMERICAN President not salute the American flag? What about his known American Terrorist friends? He is inexperienced! He has only been in the senate office for two years and most of that time has been spent on running for President.

Lower Taxes? He has raised taxes around 90 times in 2 years.
Better Education? Not everyone should have a scholarship given - that should be earned.
Better Healthcare? Are we a socialist country? I think not!

[lunafaerie]

I am TERRIFIED about the idea of Obama being President. How can someone running for an AMERICAN President not salute the American flag? What about his known American Terrorist friends? He is inexperienced! He has only been in the senate office for two years and most of that time has been spent on running for President.

Lower Taxes? He has raised taxes around 90 times in 2 years.
Better Education? Not everyone should have a scholarship given - that should be earned.
Better Healthcare? Are we a socialist country? I think not!

He was elected a senator in the 2004 elections. So he's been a senator for almost 4 years.
Not everyone gets a scholarship, but all children should have the chance to earn one by getting the best K-12 education they can.
His healthcare plan would allow you to keep your current (non-socialist) plan or buy one that the senators and president get at a reasonable price, hardly socialized healthcare.

As for saluting the flag, and having terrorist "friends" we've gone over and over that time and again, you can read all the threads here and come to your own conclusions about that.

[dodo]

I am TERRIFIED about the idea of Obama being President. How can someone running for an AMERICAN President not salute the American flag? What about his known American Terrorist friends? He is inexperienced! He has only been in the senate office for two years and most of that time has been spent on running for President.

Lower Taxes? He has raised taxes around 90 times in 2 years.
Better Education? Not everyone should have a scholarship given - that should be earned.
Better Healthcare? Are we a socialist country? I think not!


But it's OK for your President & VP to be hate monger's and for the VP to abuse her position as Governor. And her husband to be using her position for his personal needs . Yah i real nice moral goverment that will be.

[txmusicmom]

:rofl2Since we have had several of these polls, I feel a bit guilty--- I have voted several times--

By the time I actually vote for real, it will be my 5th or 6th time to vote-

:) Sorry - just being silly!!!!!!!

[txmusicmom]

Exactly what is it about Obama's idea's is it that you don't like
lower taxes
better education
better healthcare
or is it because he is black because that is what it sounds like when you have no examples of what it is that you don't like

First his race has NOTHING to do with it. Please.......
I don't care if the President is a mix of 6 different backgrounds.....( not saying he is.......just being extreme in my example)

What I don't like:
His record- the most liberal senator.........
His past close friends....Ayers and Wright
His association with ACORN
His lack of experience
His view of more government- I'm a small government gal
His views on taxing businesses-- don't you know we end up paying for it
His lack of true leadership

What I do like-
He is a very good speaker-
I like that he didn't want families to get brought into the drama- I respect him for that.
He might be a better candidate with some more years of experience - but fundamentally I still disagree with his basic platform.

[mrsmegmcclure]

I'm not the person you're talking to but I'll take a stab at this.
I like McCain because he is honest and willing to take a stand for his beliefs even when it is not in his political best interest.

I would prefer a McCain administration overseeing the war on terror because he has the military experience to lead us to victory. I am sure he wants this war to end like everyone else, and even more so with his children being in the thick of it, but he won't allow evil to prevail and our military heroes to come home in defeat.

I like that McCain will battle the pork barrel spending in Washington and name names. I don't care what Obama likes to say about it being only 18 billion dollars (though I'd venture to guess it is more) although that may not be a lot of money to Obama it is to me. Every dime they can cut and save leads us closer to a balanced budget.

I like that McCain supports an American dream that doesn't stop at 250,000. IMHO the American dream doesn't stop at 250,000 whereas the government is allowed to punish you by taxing you within an inch of your life.

I like that McCain supports a government spending freeze so he can try to reign in this out of control spending in congress. It may be burdensome to those who are dependent on the government for their livelihood but maybe it can be a wake up call. There are areas to receive charity in the private sector, it may not be a long time meal ticket, but it can be a hand up.

I like that McCain supports freedom of choice in education. If people are fed up with their own school system they should have the option of a voucher to send their child to a system where they will excel. Under a McCain administration I don't feel that my right to homeschool my children in the way I see fit will be threatened by teacher's unions firmly entrenched in the democrat party.

I like that I have no doubt in my mind that a McCain administration would back Israel 110%. He did not for a moment waver when asked what he would do if Iran attacked Israel.

I like that I am able to keep my current health insurance without being taxed at a higher rate to pay for a national health care plan.

This list could go on and on but suffice it to say there are just as many reasons why I am for a McCain administration as there are reasons I am opposed to a Obama one.

You know, I would love to hear you say what is so great about McCain and Palin. Perhaps you would get more people to agree with you that way. Bad mouthing Obama and talking down to people the way you are just doesn't seem to be doing McCain/Palin any good in my opinion.

If you haven't heard many times over in the news many of the people that are Independent or Undecided would rather hear what each candidate is going to do and why people ARE supporting that candidate instead of why the other candidate is so bad. It just doesn't do any good to say over and over "This person is sooooo bad" without ever saying why the other person is better. It makes it seem like you cannot come up with a reason why the other person is better. Many times I have seen people ask you in various posts why you are supporting McCain or what McCain is doing that is different. I have yet to see a response (although I could have missed one because this forum does tend to move a bit faster than I am able to check it).

[mrsmegmcclure]

Comments like this by his supporters is a great example of why I DO NOT like Obama. If you don't like him well then golly you must be a racist. Heck no, it couldn't be that he stands for NOTHING that person believes in! I tell you there are a lot of democrats in my neck of the woods who are not going to vote for Obama for stupid things said like this.
Exactly what is it about Obama's idea's is it that you don't like
lower taxes
better education
better healthcare
or is it because he is black because that is what it sounds like when you have no examples of what it is that you don't like

[vegaschristina]

Lower Taxes? He has raised taxes around 90 times in 2 years.

That's actually quite a stretch of the record.

If we go back to School House Rock, we learn that to become a law, a bill must be passed by both the House and the Senate. If the House & Senate pass different versions of the same bill, the 2 versions go to a committee to come to an agreement on the differences. After that it goes back to the House & Senate for revotes.

Of those 94 votes (from the McCain commercial), 17 of those votes were on 7 bills. So even though he voted 17 times on those 7 bills, it would not have raised my or your taxes 17 times...only 7 possible times. Here's what FactCheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/tax_tally_trickery.html) said about it:

The McCain campaign and the Republican National Committee both claim that Obama has voted 94 times “for higher taxes.” We find that their count is padded.

After looking at every one of the 94 votes that the RNC includes in its tally, we find:

Twenty-three were for measures that would have produced no tax increase at all; they were against proposed tax cuts.


Seven of the votes were in favor of measures that would have lowered taxes for many, while raising them on a relative few, either corporations or affluent individuals.


Eleven votes the GOP is counting would have increased taxes on those making more than $1 million a year – in order to fund programs such as Head Start and school nutrition programs, or veterans’ health care.
The GOP sometimes counted two, three and even four votes on the same measure. We found their tally included a total of 17 votes on seven measures, effectively padding their total by 10.


The majority of the 94 votes – 53 of them, including some mentioned above – were on budget measures, not tax bills, and would not have resulted in any tax change. Four other votes were non-binding motions related to conference report negotiations.
It's true that most of the votes the GOP counts would either have increased taxes for some, or set budget targets calling for such increases. But by repeating their inflated 94-vote figure, the McCain campaign and the GOP falsely imply that Obama has pushed indiscriminately to raise taxes for nearly everybody. A closer look reveals that he's voted consistently to restore higher tax rates on upper-income taxpayers but not on middle- or low-income workers. That's consistent with what he's said he'd do as president, which is to raise taxes only on those making more than $250,000 a year.

[ccouch]

Exactly what is it about Obama's idea's is it that you don't like
lower taxes
better education
better healthcare
or is it because he is black because that is what it sounds like when you have no examples of what it is that you don't like

I don't know that this kind of a post merits a response, but here goes....

I responded to someone's post about their wanting to hear why people were voting for McCain - - just what was so great about him. I responded that I tended to vote more conservatively, but for this election, my vote was more of an anti-Obama vote. I didn't feel it necessary to list out all the reasons that I liked McCain or disliked Obama - I was simply pointing out that sometimes people vote for whom they feel is the lesser of two evils and in an effort to take a vote away from the candidate they don't prefer. It's a completely logical assertion.

You've assumed that because I have not listed the reasons that I dislike Obama (though they be numerous, mind you), his being black must have turned me off. This is laughable at best. You have posted several times in these political threads with such ridiculous claims - asserting that this person must be racist or this person sounds like they are affiliated with the KKK. Let me assure you, you couldn't be further from the truth. Just because someone shares a different viewpoint, it doesn't mean that they're somehow racially motivated. Your logic is amusing. You'd have just as much luck suggesting that I'm not voting for him because he has big ears.

Since you have raised the question - I'll play along. You claim that Obama's ideas include lower taxes, better education, and better healthcare.
* His proposed lowered taxes are marginal while his tax increases are staggering.
* For education, I guess we break even. I'm not crazy about all of Obama's ECE programs, but his American Opportunity Tax Credit sounds interesting - I'd have to read more about it. Not sure on that. I'd be interested in a voucher system for K-12, but I don't believe either candidate supports that.
* We'll have to agree to disagree on the "better" healthcare. A system that includes greater government control isn't better in my mind. I will vote for smaller government every time.

I could go on, but I'll stop there. I can tell you that nowhere on my lengthy list of reasons I'm anti-Obama does skin color appear.

[dodo]

Comments like this by his supporters is a great example of why I DO NOT like Obama. If you don't like him well then golly you must be a racist. Heck no, it couldn't be that he stands for NOTHING that person believes in! I tell you there are a lot of democrats in my neck of the woods who are not going to vote for Obama for stupid things said like this.


I beg to differ with you but if you don't think this is a huge part of the election then you must have settled to have have very selective vision. All over all the news stations it is saying the the election could be won or lost over the race issue, Although i would like to think that the people had been educated and have come above that but sadly it is and will always just be a dream in the USA, and i only hope that people that will vote for Mccain because Obama is black that they will have to live or should i say exist with the government they deserve.If you don't believe me start watching more news. It is very sad and embarrassing to think the mentality of some people has not grown since the 1800 and more people choose to turn a blind eye than make an effort to change it. And as for standing for nothing how can you not stand for ending the war that has slaughtered so many thousands of innocent people slaughtered for no reason at all but you will scream about abortion what is the difference ( only the size of the body.) And McCain is a war monger don't forget how happy he was when Bush declared war on Iraq and it was all lies but McCain was so happy he was singing BOMB BOMB IRAG AND THEN IRAN NEXT and neither had anything to do with 9/11. And his biggest mistake PALIN a Governor that thinks her position makes it OK to try and fire people and lied to the investigators saying that there were threats to her family BUT she got caught lying and it looks good on her smug sarcastic ass. Gee i wonder what she will try to lie and cover up as a VP. And she is doing her best to get all the hate mongers going at there rallys and town hall meetings and now McCain has to try and reverse there damage. and she is a real moral little charmer

[vegaschristina]

We need to remember to keep this civil. I am an Obama supporter and I was actually offended by the assumption that the poster must dislike Obama because of

or is it because he is black because that is what it sounds like when you have no examples of what it is that you don't like

She is allowed, encouraged even, by our constitution to have her own thoughts and beliefs and to express them. She's even allowed to dislike him because of the color of his skin (not saying that was her reason). In a free country, that means we have to allow everyone to have their beliefs, even those we disagree with. If you think she's not supporting your candidate, educate her about why she should, don't call her a racist.

[kjbstevens]

What is so great about McCain and Palin? Mostly they believe more heavily in the roles of states in gov't. They want to leave social issues that even if he doesn't like to the states instead of the federal gov't because he doesn't believe it's his job. I actually find it nice to see him believe in leaving things to the states instead of trying to grab the power he could easily go and take upon himself since no one seems to really oppose the president just doing whatever anymore. I also think while Obama has great ideas to redo some systems he is going about it the wrong way. When not in an election McCain is a good moderate guy. This election has just brought the nasty out in everyone because of it's length. I don't blame him though for seeming like an old grumpy guy. Look at all of us on here and how we've been feeling. Imagine actually living it. I don't envy either of them because they are going in with both hands tied behind their back from the beginning. It's all difference in how people believe the country rolls.

[karenheckyeah]

Ladies,
A few years ago I lost my best friend because she considers herself a liberal democrat and I am Republican. Her choice didn't win, 2 elections in a row I might add, and I try really hard to avoid discussions about politics. However, since I don't know any of you, lol, and won't be losing any friends...unless you count potential customers, I will say this:
QUIT WATCHING MAIN STREAM MEDIA NEWS...PLEASE! BOTH MCCain and Obama have used smear campaigns against their opponents. One person has posted the same crap I have heard over and over from liberal reporters and news programs and I swear you have a one track mind. Obama is black, yep, have I ever been racist? Nope, and his color has nothing to do with whether I would vote for him or not. If he was white I still wouldn't vote for him, just as I would never vote for Al Gore or John Kerry. They do not represent my views on anything, from taxes to abortion to health care to gun control. I've watched the debates and heard Obama's representatives NOT answer the questions asked, but get the same dribble they hand out each time. I don't watch main stream media news and I don't support candidates who do not represent what I believe in, it's that simple. I also don't support actors and actresses and singers who support the candidates I don't. To me, it's hypocritical. But to me, some of this stuff I am reading is not only ignorance, but just plain meanness. Try to remember that in your future postings, pretty please. Oh, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but Canadians ain't allowed to vote for US presidents if I am not mistaken. LOL!

[Tiffikat]

Thanks Meg for your response, I really appreciated reading it. I much prefer to see why someone IS voting for someone else than why the opponent is bad without any other explanation.

Oh, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but Canadians ain't allowed to vote for US presidents if I am not mistaken. LOL!

Probably not necessary to say. Just because they can't vote on it doesn't mean they shouldn't have an opinion. What happens in this election WILL likely affect many parts of the rest of the world and Canada is our closest neighbor.

[karenheckyeah]

Thanks Meg for your response, I really appreciated reading it. I much prefer to see why someone IS voting for someone else than why the opponent is bad without any other explanation.



Probably not necessary to say. Just because they can't vote on it doesn't mean they shouldn't have an opinion. What happens in this election WILL likely affect many parts of the rest of the world and Canada is our closest neighbor.


You are right, I apologize for that. However, the opinions about my President and my candidate affect me greatly, and I was highly offended by those comments. WHich is why I can have my opinion too.

[tammy1999]

I am TERRIFIED about the idea of Obama being President. How can someone running for an AMERICAN President not salute the American flag? What about his known American Terrorist friends? He is inexperienced! He has only been in the senate office for two years and most of that time has been spent on running for President.

Lower Taxes? He has raised taxes around 90 times in 2 years.
Better Education? Not everyone should have a scholarship given - that should be earned.
Better Healthcare? Are we a socialist country? I think not!

So correct and may I add :)

Lower taxes - he wants to stop the Bush tax cuts which will raise everyone's taxes, even though he says he will only raise taxes on those making over $250,000, who in turn pay 90% of the taxes in this country anyway. He says he won't tax over 95% of the country. Around 30% of the country doesn't pay taxes and alot of those get money back from the Federal Government due to the EITC.

[tammy1999]

Ladies,
A few years ago I lost my best friend because she considers herself a liberal democrat and I am Republican. Her choice didn't win, 2 elections in a row I might add, and I try really hard to avoid discussions about politics. However, since I don't know any of you, lol, and won't be losing any friends...unless you count potential customers, I will say this:
QUIT WATCHING MAIN STREAM MEDIA NEWS...PLEASE! BOTH MCCain and Obama have used smear campaigns against their opponents. One person has posted the same crap I have heard over and over from liberal reporters and news programs and I swear you have a one track mind. Obama is black, yep, have I ever been racist? Nope, and his color has nothing to do with whether I would vote for him or not. If he was white I still wouldn't vote for him, just as I would never vote for Al Gore or John Kerry. They do not represent my views on anything, from taxes to abortion to health care to gun control. I've watched the debates and heard Obama's representatives NOT answer the questions asked, but get the same dribble they hand out each time. I don't watch main stream media news and I don't support candidates who do not represent what I believe in, it's that simple. I also don't support actors and actresses and singers who support the candidates I don't. To me, it's hypocritical. But to me, some of this stuff I am reading is not only ignorance, but just plain meanness. Try to remember that in your future postings, pretty please. Oh, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but Canadians ain't allowed to vote for US presidents if I am not mistaken. LOL!

Very true about the news and if you do watch all the different news, you truely do see the difference. I was brought up watching Walter on CBS and really didn't know there was Fox news until 9/11. I was switching back and forth just trying to get new news. Then I started seeing the difference as time went on watching other news stories. OH and this goes for newspapers too.

Oh and the race card is just wrong and I hate when people throw that at you because you aren't voting for Obama.

Great post

[Scorpiosue1102]

For tax information I go to www.taxpolicycenter.org. They probably have the best non-partisan look at all tax proposals. I worked for UnitedHealthcare for many years. Believe me, a $5,000 insurance tax credit for those that don't have it is nothing when most insurance policies cost MUCH more than that.

I really don't want to bring in who is "palling" with who and who did what. Believe me there are skeletons in both closets. You can say Obama knows Ayers well McCain knows John Singlaub.

[Tiffikat]

In my opinion everyone has someone they "know" that isn't of the best character or may have/will do something very wrong one day. However, that doesn't make all of them bad people just for knowing this person.

I wish people would stop trying to use fear to sway others votes. To me it seems like an underhanded way to bad mouth the opponent.

Personally, I truly believe that both candidates have the best interests of the country at heart. I don't believe that having either candidate as president is something to fear for anyone. Neither the Republican or Democratic parties would have selected someone as their candidate that would actually hurt America on purpose. Obama is not a terrorist and the weak ties that keep being brought up to scare people are ludicrous. McCain is also not a terrorist. Both are U.S. Citizens or they wouldn't have made it this far.

I would love from this point on out to see more conversations focused on actual known facts and less on rumors and suppositions (from both sides) to try and scare people into changing their vote. Wouldn't it be so much nicer if all could calmly and politely say "I am voting for ______ because I feel..." or "I am not voting for ______ because I do not agree with _____ stance". It just seems to me that these discussions would be much more respectful and intelligent.

One of the reasons that I will be voting for Obama is that I feel he will be slower to move into War than McCain. In my opinion war doesn't seem to be solving anything and I just cannot see how additional wars or continued war will solve anything.

[tammy1999]

Wow, the voting is very close.

[MommySpice]

It makes me so sad to see this discussion turn the way it has.

I am not voting for Obama. I am not racist. I do not think his goal to tax the rich is realistic or fair. All citizens of this country benefit from this government in some way, shape, or form and should contribute. It is also unrealistic when you think about the money he wants to pour into health care and education. Again...sounds good when you hear it at a campaign rally, but where do you think that money is going to come from? His running mate, Joe Biden, didn't like him in the primary and thought that his experience was lacking. In fact, Joe said he wouldn't mind running with McCain. Flip flop...whatever gets you to the top.

The war on Iraq may have started on bad information, but intelligence from other countries showed the same and at the time a great many people in several different governments, including our own congress, agreed it was something that needed to be done. There are quite a few civilian deaths, but what I haven't found is how many are due to the insurgents...which was going on before we got there and probably would've continued anyway. My brother was there. He walked the streets as an MP looking for IEDs and had the opportunity to meet plenty of Iraqi civilians. They did not hate him. They appreciated what he was there for, wanted to shake his hand and thank him for his service. When he lost his leg, he still wanted to go back. Not to "destroy" people...but to help those whom he had come to respect and love. I don't agree with war in general (the Mennonite in me)...but now that we're over there, we do need to make sure that we leave at a time that is good for the Iraqi people as well as our own country.

I am not voting for McCain. I can't trust him either. He has changed a lot since 2000, and the more I hear about Sarah Palin, the more I feel that she isn't right for the job, at least right now. His choice for her as VP makes me wonder what's going on in his head. There are plenty of other capable people who would make a great VP.

I don't know who I'm going to actually vote for. I may just write in Colin Powell, even though he doesn't currently want the job. Since I'm not voting for the 2 majors, whoever I vote for won't get it anyway. Maybe enough people will write him in that he'll realize that maybe its time he ran. Maybe 2012 will bring us at least one better choice.

The media likes to play up the race card because it does still rile people up...not because everyone who doesn't vote for Obama ARE racist. There are people who will/won't vote for him purely because of his heritage (yes, that's right, it goes both ways). However, the number of people voting based on race alone is most likely far fewer than the number of people voting based on political party alone. I have not heard ONE person who is voting based on color. I have heard MANY who are voting based on party.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but posting hatred does nothing but make the person posting it look bad. ETA: that goes for both sides...not any one person in particular. I'm starting to see it so many places. :(

[mrsmegmcclure]

I admit I didn't know who John Singlaub was so I googled him. Is this the man you are speaking of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_K._Singlaub because I simply don't get how you can equate a decorated war hero to a admitted domestic terrorist!
For tax information I go to www.taxpolicycenter.org (http://www.taxpolicycenter.org). They probably have the best non-partisan look at all tax proposals. I worked for UnitedHealthcare for many years. Believe me, a $5,000 insurance tax credit for those that don't have it is nothing when most insurance policies cost MUCH more than that.

I really don't want to bring in who is "palling" with who and who did what. Believe me there are skeletons in both closets. You can say Obama knows Ayers well McCain knows John Singlaub.

[reba]

VOTING FOR OBAMA-BIDEN!!! We cannot stand four more years of the mess our country is in! WE NEED CHANGE! We need some one like OBAMA for the working class..

[tammy1999]

It makes me so sad to see this discussion turn the way it has.

I am not voting for Obama. I am not racist. I do not think his goal to tax the rich is realistic or fair. All citizens of this country benefit from this government in some way, shape, or form and should contribute. It is also unrealistic when you think about the money he wants to pour into health care and education. Again...sounds good when you hear it at a campaign rally, but where do you think that money is going to come from? His running mate, Joe Biden, didn't like him in the primary and thought that his experience was lacking. In fact, Joe said he wouldn't mind running with McCain. Flip flop...whatever gets you to the top.

The war on Iraq may have started on bad information, but intelligence from other countries showed the same and at the time a great many people in several different governments, including our own congress, agreed it was something that needed to be done. There are quite a few civilian deaths, but what I haven't found is how many are due to the insurgents...which was going on before we got there and probably would've continued anyway. My brother was there. He walked the streets as an MP looking for IEDs and had the opportunity to meet plenty of Iraqi civilians. They did not hate him. They appreciated what he was there for, wanted to shake his hand and thank him for his service. When he lost his leg, he still wanted to go back. Not to "destroy" people...but to help those whom he had come to respect and love. I don't agree with war in general (the Mennonite in me)...but now that we're over there, we do need to make sure that we leave at a time that is good for the Iraqi people as well as our own country.

I am not voting for McCain. I can't trust him either. He has changed a lot since 2000, and the more I hear about Sarah Palin, the more I feel that she isn't right for the job, at least right now. His choice for her as VP makes me wonder what's going on in his head. There are plenty of other capable people who would make a great VP.

I don't know who I'm going to actually vote for. I may just write in Colin Powell, even though he doesn't currently want the job. Since I'm not voting for the 2 majors, whoever I vote for won't get it anyway. Maybe enough people will write him in that he'll realize that maybe its time he ran. Maybe 2012 will bring us at least one better choice.

The media likes to play up the race card because it does still rile people up...not because everyone who doesn't vote for Obama ARE racist. There are people who will/won't vote for him purely because of his heritage (yes, that's right, it goes both ways). However, the number of people voting based on race alone is most likely far fewer than the number of people voting based on political party alone. I have not heard ONE person who is voting based on color. I have heard MANY who are voting based on party.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but posting hatred does nothing but make the person posting it look bad. ETA: that goes for both sides...not any one person in particular. I'm starting to see it so many places. :(

Very nice post Kara and thank you.

[dodo]

You are right, I apologize for that. However, the opinions about my President and my candidate affect me greatly, and I was highly offended by those comments. WHich is why I can have my opinion too.


I am sorry if i offended anyone but it is a legitimate question being asked by many people and lots of them have said because he is black. Mostly among the older voters but certainly not only them. just as there will be people voting for him because he is black. This is an adult site and i thought it was OK to ask adult questions. By trying to pretend it does not exist is not going to help the problem, And as far as being Canadian my parents died still holding their American citizenship and i have many many close family in the states that we talk politics with all the time. and if i am correct i did not mention that i would vote for any body.

[vegaschristina]

I am sorry if i offended anyone but it is a legitimate question being asked by many people and lots of them have said because he is black. Mostly among the older voters but certainly not only them. just as there will be people voting for him because he is black. This is an adult site and i thought it was OK to ask adult questions.

It's not that you asked if that was her reason for not voting for Obama, it's that you all but accused her of being a racist. Since she didn't list her reasons, of course, it MUST be because he's black, right? It's ok to ask adult questions, but it's not ok to assume someone is a racist because they don't list every reason why they don't like Obama.

[Krash]

We need to remember to keep this civil. I am an Obama supporter and I was actually offended by the assumption that the poster must dislike Obama because of



She is allowed, encouraged even, by our constitution to have her own thoughts and beliefs and to express them. She's even allowed to dislike him because of the color of his skin (not saying that was her reason). In a free country, that means we have to allow everyone to have their beliefs, even those we disagree with. If you think she's not supporting your candidate, educate her about why she should, don't call her a racist.


Thank YOU!! I am a reg. democrat voting for McCain, I'm from Ky. Does that make me racist? No. That comment is very, very insulting.

[lunafaerie]

You know what, everyone may very well not be racist, but questioning about racism isn't a bad thing necessarily. What are we supposed to sweep racism under the carpet and pretend it's not a factor in this election? Are we supposed to ignore that over 13% of the country still thinks Obama is a Muslim? (or even an Arab, Black Muslim is not Arab) If you are confident in your assertion that your are not racist and it has no bearing in your decision to vote for McCain, then that's great as far as I'm concerned. I may not have come out and said it like Dodo, but the constant "I'm not voting for Obama because he's bad for this country" and "I don't know anything about him" and "we can't trust him", was getting kind of tiresome. It does lead some people to question why are you not voting for them, and I appreciate those who listed their reasons.

Discussing racism in this country will only lead to less racism, IMO.

Could things have been handled differently in this thread, yes, but that's true for every thread so far as far as I'm concerned.

Let's all try to take things a little less personally and focus on the fact we all are passionate people (or we wouldn't be posting in this forum), we have all shown intelligence, we have more in common than we have different, and there are legitimate issues we can be discussing.

Please?

[Krash]

devil's advocate...IF Obama were pure caucasian would race talk come up at all? NO. I just read the comment about (is it because he's black?) as saying that if someone doesn't support him they must be a racist! Actually as I look at it Mr. Obama isn't black. He had a caucasian mother and a African father. He's neither caucasian or black:) He's "tan" as my little dd would say.

sigh...guess what got to me is this...I had a very good friend at work who was black. Her BEST friends at work was a red headed white guy and me. The 3 of us were sitting around talking and the guy friend mentioned all the crime on the news lately over the river. She happened to live over there as did most of the people we work with. Anyway we said how horrible it all was and we were afraid to go over there because of it. Suddenly she flipped and I mean FLIPPED out!! She started screaming at us that we were racist!!!!! HUH?? WTF?? We were both confused as all get out! No one had mentioned race in any way shape or form!! Then she clarified. She said because it was mostly blacks committing the crimes we were hearing about and scared of and we were talking about it it MUST make us racist. Neither of us, the people who thought we were her best friends, could believe it. We had NOT been close to mentioning skin color...just talking about all the murders. Murder knows no color..:( Guess what I'm trying to say with this long story is that race honestly and truely wasn't thought of at all UNTIL it was brought up. Brought up by someone we respected and trusted:(

OK...Now I'm going back into lurking and making sure I don't click on a political thread again! :)

[DirtyFeetDesigns (heb1976)]

Exactly what is it about Obama's idea's is it that you don't like
lower taxes
better education
better healthcare
or is it because he is black because that is what it sounds like when you have no examples of what it is that you don't like

I think that was a little out of line in my opinion. In no way shape or form was their any reference to race in her comment. Do you have a problem with it?

[4noisyboys]

I'm voting for Obama/Biden...no surprises there, eh? LOL!!

I think it is part of who I am as a person, that makes me a democrat. It is just something I cannot change. I might not always like the nominee, but I always have voted for him. I think so far they have been the lesser of two evils for me. Not with Obama though. I'm really excited. I really honestly think he will be great for America.

For me, I dislike the whole idea of fear mongering. The republicans seem to be so good at trying to scare the American public of what "could" happen if a Democrat were to be in office.

What I do find admirable about McCain....that he took the microphone away from that woman in the town hall meeting the other day and stopped her from calling Obama an Arab. I've watched that over and over, and I was really touched by that. You could see it in his face that he knew it went too far. So sad though, because both he and Palin were at fault for enciting that fear.

And....last but certainly not least...I am against abortion, in that I don't like it and would try to educate anyone who wanted one and help them in any way I could to keep the baby or give it up for adoption. BUT....do not tell me I can or can not do something with my body. I remember hearing Billy Graham maybe 16 years ago or so saying that even he felt abortions were ok in the event of rape or incest. Who am I to tell someone that she HAS to carry and give birth to that child. I can not nor will I do that. I don't feel that our govt has the right to make that decision either.

Well, that is all for me tonight! I'm tired, and I'm off to bed. You girls play nice in the sandbox tomorrow, ok?

[FrenchRuby]

I don't believe in race. I think it's a complete red herring, a constructed differentiation where no difference actual exists. Because of that, and because Obama isn't 'black' anyway, I believe that race should not be any kind of issue in the election, or indeed anywhere else.

Racism however, is a valid issue. It's important that people who buy into the lie of different races get some education. I don't think that an election is the time to do it though, it only fuels the myth of there being races. We shouldn't be talking about it any more than we should be talking about whether one of the candidates is a leprechaun. Not only are neither a leprechaun, but as far as most adults know, leprechauns don't exist anyway. Ergo, completely pointless and meaningless debate that only serves to fuel hatred for a mythical difference.

After the election though, we definitely need to increase leprechaun-blindness education.

ETA: Either I am hallucinating, or as I was typing this post, Irish dance music started playing on my computer. LOL, I was loading Puzzle Pirates, that nearly gave me a heart attack :)

[tcscrapper]

WOW. Dead even!

[Melanie Colosimo (lemonyr)]

WOW. Dead even!

I know! VERY interesting!!!

[brechasemom]

Wow, I can't believe it's dead even!

[HLWalter725]

Wow -- if this site is any indication of the rest of the country, this is going to be SOME election night!!!

I'm not sure if we are a true indication of the country, I think the vast majority of those here are more educated on the issues than a large portion of the country.

I still think the results are going to be close!!

[Julie]

devil's advocate...IF Obama were pure caucasian would race talk come up at all? NO. I just read the comment about (is it because he's black?) as saying that if someone doesn't support him they must be a racist! Actually as I look at it Mr. Obama isn't black. He had a caucasian mother and a African father. He's neither caucasian or black:) He's "tan" as my little dd would say.

You have to love the way kids think, don't you. Several years ago a friend of mine, Louise's (white) husband took the job as basketball coach at a local school. Her husband was black. There was a notice posted on the bulletin board with his picture. His daughter came across a group of kids looking at the poster and talking about the new coach. She proudly told everyone that was her dad. Now she indeed looked very much like her mom, so one of the kids sarcastically asked her "so if your mom is white and your dad's black what color does that make you?" Her reply? "Purple." It was never mentioned again, at least not in her presence. Wouldn't it be great if we could all look at things that simply?

[DirtyFeetDesigns (heb1976)]

I am sorry if i offended anyone but it is a legitimate question being asked by many people and lots of them have said because he is black. Mostly among the older voters but certainly not only them. just as there will be people voting for him because he is black. This is an adult site and i thought it was OK to ask adult questions. By trying to pretend it does not exist is not going to help the problem, And as far as being Canadian my parents died still holding their American citizenship and i have many many close family in the states that we talk politics with all the time. and if i am correct i did not mention that i would vote for any body.

If someone chooses not to vote for Obama because he is black ... is that not their right? The issue was not the fact that you asked the question ... it was the way you insinuated it. Go back and read the way you wrote it out ... there was a little animosity in the question.

This is what bothers me. I just got done listening the news this morning. They were talking about race in this election. I guess at a thing McCain did a couple days ago, he made a comment to the crowd that come the last debate, he was going to "whip Obama's you know what." Now he meant ass/butt, however you want to say it. Obama's campaign came in and said McCain was being racist by using the word whip. McCain came out and said that he apologizes if it offended anyone ... that was not what he meant. The guy on the news talking about this was black himself. He even said that this race issue is ridiculous and by no means did McCain mean anything racist about it. It was a comment that alot of people use.

Are we children? I mean seriously. The word "uppity" is racist; "whip" is racist; anything else. When the hell did America become so P.C?

I don't believe it is specifically Obama making issue with it ... I think it is his campaign and I think it is wrong. You want race to not be an issue ... then stop fumbling over words one person said and saying it racist. I am not saying any of us on this board ... I mean in general. It makes me sick.

[tammy1999]

If someone chooses not to vote for Obama because he is black ... is that not their right? The issue was not the fact that you asked the question ... it was the way you insinuated it. Go back and read the way you wrote it out ... there was a little animosity in the question.

This is what bothers me. I just got done listening the news this morning. They were talking about race in this election. I guess at a thing McCain did a couple days ago, he made a comment to the crowd that come the last debate, he was going to "whip Obama's you know what." Now he meant ass/butt, however you want to say it. Obama's campaign came in and said McCain was being racist by using the word whip. McCain came out and said that he apologizes if it offended anyone ... that was not what he meant. The guy on the news talking about this was black himself. He even said that this race issue is ridiculous and by no means did McCain mean anything racist about it. It was a comment that alot of people use.

Are we children? I mean seriously. The word "uppity" is racist; "whip" is racist; anything else. When the hell did America become so P.C?

I don't believe it is specifically Obama making issue with it ... I think it is his campaign and I think it is wrong. You want race to not be an issue ... then stop fumbling over words one person said and saying it racist. I am not saying any of us on this board ... I mean in general. It makes me sick.

I agree with you DirtyFeet. I use to live where the majority of people were black and just the way we were treated in stores, restaurants, etc. My generation did not cause what happened all those years ago, but race is used sooooooo many times to get what they want. That is so wrong. Just like Rep. John Lewis did over the weekend. Yes, he is from the civil rights era, but that time is over. There use to be another Rep. from Georgia that told out in public, "My daddy taught me that everything that happened bad to me was because of the white man." And I think the people in the area woke up because they voted her out of 2 different districts and now she is trying in another state. The state of mind in some places is bad and what's a person to do?

[Charlene]

I don't believe in race. I think it's a complete red herring, a constructed differentiation where no difference actual exists. Because of that, and because Obama isn't 'black' anyway, I believe that race should not be any kind of issue in the election, or indeed anywhere else.

Racism however, is a valid issue. It's important that people who buy into the lie of different races get some education. I don't think that an election is the time to do it though, it only fuels the myth of there being races. We shouldn't be talking about it any more than we should be talking about whether one of the candidates is a leprechaun. Not only are neither a leprechaun, but as far as most adults know, leprechauns don't exist anyway. Ergo, completely pointless and meaningless debate that only serves to fuel hatred for a mythical difference.



Right here on this very website people admitted they would not vote for Obama BECAUSE HE IS BLACK. And you can say race doesn't exist all you want. In the context here, race = color of skin, and it is having an impact on the election. I agree that racism SHOULDN'T affect the election but it is and I, for one, think discussion IS necessary.

[Charlene]

I agree with you DirtyFeet. I use to live where the majority of people were black and just the way we were treated in stores, restaurants, etc. My generation did not cause what happened all those years ago, but race is used sooooooo many times to get what they want. That is so wrong. Just like Rep. John Lewis did over the weekend. Yes, he is from the civil rights era, but that time is over. There use to be another Rep. from Georgia that told out in public, "My daddy taught me that everything that happened bad to me was because of the white man." And I think the people in the area woke up because they voted her out of 2 different districts and now she is trying in another state. The state of mind in some places is bad and what's a person to do?

Source please?

In grew up a white "minority" in a southern city and currently live in a midwest neighborhood that is predominantly african american and have NEVER seen "them" use race to get what "they" want. The very idea is ludicrous to me.

[tammy1999]

Source please?

In grew up a white "minority" in a southern city and currently live in a midwest neighborhood that is predominantly african american and have NEVER seen "them" use race to get what "they" want. The very idea is ludicrous to me.

Girl, then you should've lived in the southern town that I am talking about. I won't name it, but its in the south. You would have to live there and do business there to know what I mean. You can call me a liar. I don't care. I lived it and know.

[vegaschristina]

You want race to not be an issue ... then stop fumbling over words one person said and saying it racist. I am not saying any of us on this board ... I mean in general. It makes me sick.

There was a city council on the news this year where the mayor was being accused of using race when he discussed a black hole.

I agree...PC has absolutely gone way too far.

ETA: I found the link: Black Hole Racism (http://cityhallblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/07/dallas-county-meeting-turns-ra.html)

[tammy1999]

There was a city council on the news this year where the mayor was being accused of using race when he discussed a black hole.

I agree...PC has absolutely gone way too far.

ETA: I found the link: Black Hole Racism (http://cityhallblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/07/dallas-county-meeting-turns-ra.html)

I heard that story and ain't it sad!!

[strangejen]

remember Omarosa on "The Apprentice"? One girl was calling her out on being hyprocritical and said "That's like the pot calling the kettle black." (A VERY common phrase.) Omarosa replied "Why you gotta bring race into this?" and ended up on Oprah talking about how those mean white girls were conspiring against her. (I was embarassed for Oprah at that point, for choosing to put Omarosa on the stage and let her go on and on and to have the mean white girls sitting in the audience and barely getting to defend themselves.)

I'm not making a point about race . . . just about phrases that people need to understand are part of the English vernacular and aren't about SKIN color, they're about . . . like . . . actual colors and about science. :)

[Peppermint]

Wow, this poll is close.

Anyone else thinking about taking November 5th off of work, in anticipation of being glued to the tube until the wee hours of the morning on 11/4? LOL I should put in my request now.

[Microferk ~ Miki Ferkul]

I am planning an all-nighter already!

[Scorpiosue1102]

It's going to be a VERY late night for me. I have NEVER been so excited about a Presidential race ever.

[Tiffikat]

We stayed up almost all night the last election and finally crashed and woke up to a terrible disappointment. I'm hoping this election will be different.

[Florida Cindy]

Wow, this poll is close.

Anyone else thinking about taking November 5th off of work, in anticipation of being glued to the tube until the wee hours of the morning on 11/4? LOL I should put in my request now.

Oh :smurf! DH is having surgery on the 5th. Guess, it will be an early night for me. :smurf

[Tiffikat]

Dawn I think sometimes you have to look at all of the issues and you find some issues just end up having to take precedence. My Dad is very pro-life and will be voting Obama/Biden because there are just too many issues he disagrees with McCain on and he feels that taking care of our economy is just more important right now. Although he was on the fence until McCain chose Palin for his running mate. The more my Dad reads about her and sees her in interviews/debates the less confident he is in McCain's ability to make important choices.

[suejones]

I don't have a horse in this race - I'm the first to admit it.
However, I have been following all discussions on this board as whatever decision you all make is going to affect me in the long run. ;)
Right now our news is full of ways that our Prime Minister is hoping to stabilise the Australian economy after what happened in the US! So I have been watching closely.
I'm intrigued that for the past 8 years you have had someone in power who was not even elected by the majority! I don't understand this.
I didn't get to watch the Presidential debate but I watched the VP debate.
If I had to make a decision between your candidates I would be worried. Which is the lesser of the evils?
I have gut feelings about them but since this isn't my race, I'll keep my gut feeling to myself.

And whilst race should not be an issue there are always some who will make it so. (and this is not aimed at anyone on these boards - I'm making a general observation about the populations of the world in general).

[FrenchRuby]

And you can say race doesn't exist all you want. In the context here, race = color of skin

That's exactly my point! RACE doesn't exist. It means nothing. The colour of a person's skin makes them different? No. No more than the colour of their eyes, the colour of their hair or the colour of their shirt. Trying to create a division in society on the basis of such a ludicrous and completely arbitrary difference in appearance is preposterous. Perpetuating the myth that the difference exists by dignifying opinions about 'race' with the tacit acceptance of their having any kind of basis in reality only makes it worse in my view.

Race doesn't exist. RacISM does, and needs to be tackled. But not by accepting the premise that race is a real differentiation between people, rather by reinforcing the truth. That it ISN'T, and to believe that it is, is a sign of ignorance. Igorance is curable.

[Gina.Maria]

Stripped of our skin, we're all the same.

[Florida Cindy]

Even if you are not an American citizen, you can still vote in this poll! Yes, it may change results but it's all for fun. I love reading opnions from other countries.

[Charlene]

Girl, then you should've lived in the southern town that I am talking about. I won't name it, but its in the south. You would have to live there and do business there to know what I mean. You can call me a liar. I don't care. I lived it and know.

Girrrrrl, I also asked for a source. I'm not calling you a liar. We can exchange anecdotal stories all day and they don't mean jack without proof. Yours NOR mine. That's what I was getting at.

That's exactly my point! RACE doesn't exist. It means nothing. The colour of a person's skin makes them different? No. No more than the colour of their eyes, the colour of their hair or the colour of their shirt. Trying to create a division in society on the basis of such a ludicrous and completely arbitrary difference in appearance is preposterous. Perpetuating the myth that the difference exists by dignifying opinions about 'race' with the tacit acceptance of their having any kind of basis in reality only makes it worse in my view.

Race doesn't exist. RacISM does, and needs to be tackled. But not by accepting the premise that race is a real differentiation between people, rather by reinforcing the truth. That it ISN'T, and to believe that it is, is a sign of ignorance. Igorance is curable.

OK, I get what you're saying. My point was, whatever you call it, it needs to be talked about not ignored or swept under the rug. Racism is one of my biggest hot-button issues so I get riled up about it sometimes :blush Its presence here on this board makes me very sad and almost turned me away for good.

[Gina.Maria]

I'd like to apologize for my post in #72. I didn't realize just how gross that sounded until I looked at it a second time. :blush

[Chreamps]

I took it by it's meaning and not the "gross" sound of it, Gina. Maria;)

[vegaschristina]

Me either, you were discussing how under our skin, we're all the same, not advocating that we all cut our skins off. That would be gross!

[Charlene]

I took it by it's meaning and not the "gross" sound of it, Gina. Maria;)

Ditto!

Although, it's not entirely accurate. I work in the healthcare field and there are most definitely differences between races.