Corn!

[Gina.Maria]

Okay, our fuel crisis thread got waylaid by a discussion of corn as bio-fuel that led to corn lobbyists convincing food manufacturers to substitute high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS) for sugar and then people started asking for Dr. Pepper care packages from others who have access to Mexican soda pop!

So what I'd like to discuss (non-partisan, so don't inject political opinions into this, please) is how do we preserve our farmland, reduce food costs, produce a renewable fuel to power our autos, save our health as a nation and still have a corn maze at Halloween festivals? (Sorry, we've been getting way too serious in some of our threads and I need a little levity once in a while.) Let's discuss ideas we've read about, studied or experienced. Shoot for the moon, ladies!

[Heather Manning]

I have no idea, I'm not that knowledgeable on this subject. All I know is any time anyone talks about messing with ethanol the whole state of Iowa goes into an uproar. Seriously, it's the one way to ensure the whole state is angry with you.

This isn't a solution, but when I lived in Ohio a few years ago, I was in shock when I'd pull up to a gas station and not have the choice to use ethanol. I always use ethanol because it supports our farmers here. I was afraid my poor car would go into some kind of shock not being fed it's dose of corn. :o)

[Hollie]

Sustainable agriculture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustainable_agriculture)

[Gina.Maria]

Agreed, Hollie, but corn as an ingredient in almost all that we eat, a feed source for livestock and raw material for fuel still makes it a financial minefield. Is anyone here from a sugar-producing area? What are your thoughts on returning to using sugar in our food production? Corn farmers? Where do your crops go?

[Hollie]

Well, you said "shoot for the moon" :)

[missys_bits]

Personally, I wish there was a way to use trash to produce fuel...I mean it can been done, but the odors would be unbelievable! But we have a serious waste problem and a fuel problem and if there were a responsible way to manage both I'd be all for it.

[sansan]

I watched a doc called King Corn just the other day and I have been stalking (a little corn humor, there) food labels for HFCS for several years and am ready to throw up my hands in defeat over my diet. After viewing this, I think we have gone in a horrible direction and it needs reversed. If you pay a farmer NOT to produce human-edible food and you PAY him to produce CRAP that farm animals eat (and get sick from) then I think it needs fixed. It insults my intelligence to see new tv commercials touting how HFCS is not bad for us. Bullhockey!

Find a better substitute for the leftover sludge they have been feeding us. Or put it the same place that all the unwanted holiday fruitcakes end up. There must be a super secret place we don't know about. ;-)

Feed the poor critters what they are supposed to eat, not ground-up corn stalks. Remember, we are at the top of THAT food chain.

If farmland were used more to feed America, wouldn't it bring prices down for produce and incite healthy eating again? No one I know eats their 5-a-day. It costs more to eat a vegetable than junk food. I saw an artichoke in Winn Dixie recently for $4.59...for 1!

So Florida is not innocent either...until recently there were miles and miles of farmland dedicated to food crops...now it's all but disappeared. Land developers, strip malls, and new neighborhoods lying in flood zones. Those poor unsuspecting suckers that bought 2 years ago can't unload them now and they have to deal with flooded streets every time it rains.

Although it won't solve the problem immediately, I also think we need to push for education. We have been falling further behind each generation. Even worse, ever since 'no child left behind' our teachers spend the whole year preparing for passing a test. I want my child to learn more. She has never heard of things I learned about in the same grade. I think a real 'no child left behind' plan should mean giving our kids a college education that's truly attainable. The world is laughing at us so-called "dumb Americans". I really hope that doesn't come true. An educated society can solve anything.

What was going to be a short reply ended up being a bit longer...sorry I injected HFCS, but it plays a big role. If we demand they stop forcing it upon us, maybe that could change the direction of agriculture for the better too.

As for energy, we can cut back costs by adopting and keeping green thinking. That has been discussed at length in other threads already.

I gotta go now...time to make my corn-fed burger with HFCS doused ketchup on a bun made with HFCS and wash it down with an ice cold HFCS cola.

[kjbstevens]

The corn/soy on our land goes to make chicken feed which at harvest they take directly to the company we grow chickens for so we help them by bringing them corn and they make the feed and bring it back. They have a cycle of benefit with the system here so that the area stays pretty self containing reducing the fuel of having to ship in corn with the added fuel costs added onto it.

[strangejen]

I wish that fast growing, low maintenance plants like kudzo and bamboo could be used for fuel. It wouldn't mess with the food supply, that stuff can completely take over a hillside in a week, and it would be less work than corn. Everyone wins! (I don't know if the make-up of the plants would be conducive to fuel, though.)

[Tiffikat]

Although it won't solve the problem immediately, I also think we need to push for education. We have been falling further behind each generation. Even worse, ever since 'no child left behind' our teachers spend the whole year preparing for passing a test. I want my child to learn more. She has never heard of things I learned about in the same grade. I think a real 'no child left behind' plan should mean giving our kids a college education that's truly attainable. The world is laughing at us so-called "dumb Americans". I really hope that doesn't come true. An educated society can solve anything.

This is what I think is the solution to many, many of our problems in America currently.

[ccubed]

Personally, I wish there was a way to use trash to produce fuel...I mean it can been done, but the odors would be unbelievable! But we have a serious waste problem and a fuel problem and if there were a responsible way to manage both I'd be all for it.

Actually there are already a few WTE (waste to energy) plants in Europe. Personally, I used to live less than 15 minutes from one in Italy and no, there is not a horrendous smell. It incinerates the city's refuse to produce heat and electricity. However, in recent years there has been increased concern about the long-term health effects of this operation even though they claim it is no worse then burning coal or #6 fuel oil.

You can look up WTE plants in google to read more about them if you are interested. :)

[Chreamps]

StrangeJen posted: I wish that fast growing, low maintenance plants like kudzo and bamboo could be used for fuel.Lived in Kentucky for a year - they would love you to find a use for kudzo;)

Okay, I'm back to corn. These are a couple articles that are a few years old and as the "con" one says it would be a "start" regarding using corn to make our "plastics":

CON (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/plastic.html)

PRO (http://ezinearticles.com/?id=26031)

Still on the fence about sugar, need to do more research on both. (http://ezinearticles.com/?id=26031)

[kjbstevens]

They use trash for energy in South Carolina. I lived down there for a semester and the energy for the Conway area where I lived was trash power.

[Chreamps]

trash power

Sorry, feeling goofy, sounds like a slogan to me: Trash Power!!!

[strangejen]

sounds like a slogan to me: Trash Power!!!

now it just needs a catchy theme song!!!

[kjbstevens]

I will say I do like the trash idea far better than taking a major food out of our food chain. I never smelled the one in SC either. Our bills were a little high though. I lived in a small apt and we never had a "cheap" bill compared to other places I've lived. Maybe that is part of the drawback. It definately wasn't a budget busting difference, but still more.

[Chreamps]

Okay, all we have to do is search youtube:

Trash Power: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTHb9wU5i2Q

Love this one: COW POWER!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV193CPa5P8&feature=related

[kjbstevens]

We can't do cows though. Other want to kill them all because they cause global warming. :lol I love the options though! Anything is better than settling.

[strangejen]

Lived in Kentucky for a year - they would love you to find a use for kudzo

Yup, it's alive and well here in middle TN, too! I have a friend from east TN who said she had a friend from somewhere else visit her . . . friend saw a hill of kudzo and said "what pretty plants! I wish I could take some home to where I live!" HA HA HA. yeah, you do that . . . see what happens.

[kjbstevens]

Hey I'm from about the same area and I have NO idea what it is. I'm just from the side of Bristol. Does it have another name to us? Here the problem child is morning glory and honeysuckle.... only my 2 favorite plants to grow back home. LOL

[strangejen]

http://www.nature.org/initiatives/invasivespecies/features/art8864.html

Crap, I was spelling it wrong. It's kudzu. :)

"Once established, kudzu grows at a rate of one foot per day; mature vines can be 100 feet long."

Hey, now that's impressive!!!

[kjbstevens]

Oh yeah we had that stuff. I think we called it some weird type of ivy. Then again anything on a vine that overtook everything we just called it that. It's all over the hole hills around 81.

[txmusicmom]

Agreed, Hollie, but corn as an ingredient in almost all that we eat, a feed source for livestock and raw material for fuel still makes it a financial minefield. Is anyone here from a sugar-producing area? What are your thoughts on returning to using sugar in our food production? Corn farmers? Where do your crops go?

I VOTE for sugar in our food--- I really believe the high fructose corn syrup is a huge part of our national health issues.....Hey Whoopi Goldberg and I agree on that!!! :lol

I have a farmer friend who raises corn---so I'll ask and report back.

Great thread- Thanks Gina!

[txmusicmom]

KUDZU!!!!!!!!!!!

That stuff will take over the world...........:lol

Man it's all over east of the Mississippi River down south.....

Donna

[Haley64]

http://www.nature.org/initiatives/invasivespecies/features/art8864.html

Crap, I was spelling it wrong. It's kudzu. :)

"Once established, kudzu grows at a rate of one foot per day; mature vines can be 100 feet long."

Hey, now that's impressive!!!
I looked at the photo and read the description but didn't see if it has those little prickly pear shaped "fruit" that grow on it.
If it does we have something similar to it here also.

[Gina.Maria]

I watched a doc called King Corn just the other day and I have been stalking (a little corn humor, there) food labels for HFCS for several years and am ready to throw up my hands in defeat over my diet. After viewing this, I think we have gone in a horrible direction and it needs reversed. If you pay a farmer NOT to produce human-edible food and you PAY him to produce CRAP that farm animals eat (and get sick from) then I think it needs fixed. It insults my intelligence to see new tv commercials touting how HFCS is not bad for us. Bullhockey!

Find a better substitute for the leftover sludge they have been feeding us. Or put it the same place that all the unwanted holiday fruitcakes end up. There must be a super secret place we don't know about. ;-)

Feed the poor critters what they are supposed to eat, not ground-up corn stalks. Remember, we are at the top of THAT food chain.

If farmland were used more to feed America, wouldn't it bring prices down for produce and incite healthy eating again? No one I know eats their 5-a-day. It costs more to eat a vegetable than junk food. I saw an artichoke in Winn Dixie recently for $4.59...for 1!

So Florida is not innocent either...until recently there were miles and miles of farmland dedicated to food crops...now it's all but disappeared. Land developers, strip malls, and new neighborhoods lying in flood zones. Those poor unsuspecting suckers that bought 2 years ago can't unload them now and they have to deal with flooded streets every time it rains.

Although it won't solve the problem immediately, I also think we need to push for education. We have been falling further behind each generation. Even worse, ever since 'no child left behind' our teachers spend the whole year preparing for passing a test. I want my child to learn more. She has never heard of things I learned about in the same grade. I think a real 'no child left behind' plan should mean giving our kids a college education that's truly attainable. The world is laughing at us so-called "dumb Americans". I really hope that doesn't come true. An educated society can solve anything.

What was going to be a short reply ended up being a bit longer...sorry I injected HFCS, but it plays a big role. If we demand they stop forcing it upon us, maybe that could change the direction of agriculture for the better too.

As for energy, we can cut back costs by adopting and keeping green thinking. That has been discussed at length in other threads already.

I gotta go now...time to make my corn-fed burger with HFCS doused ketchup on a bun made with HFCS and wash it down with an ice cold HFCS cola.

No problem! HFCS was one of the main issues I wanted to inject into this discussion! It's an issue with the Corn Grower's Lobby being far too successful in convincing processed-food manufacturers to switch from sugar and it's use is slowly killing our population.

You know, at my children's school (German school, not international) there are no children who are even pudgy? None. Not even the little first-graders with their precious little "baby-faces." They eat candy like it's going to disappear if they blink and lots of high-carb foods (Hello! It's Germany - potatoes, bread, noodles and cake!) and they're still skinny! I've got to conclude that it's related to the lack of HFCS in any of their foods.

[tammy1999]

http://www.nature.org/initiatives/invasivespecies/features/art8864.html

Crap, I was spelling it wrong. It's kudzu. :)

"Once established, kudzu grows at a rate of one foot per day; mature vines can be 100 feet long."

Hey, now that's impressive!!!
We have kudzu every where were we live. That stuff is soooooo impressive how it grows, but its also distructive too.

[Chreamps]

No problem! HFCS was one of the main issues I wanted to inject into this discussion! It's an issue with the Corn Grower's Lobby being far too successful in convincing processed-food manufacturers to switch from sugar and it's use is slowly killing our population.I agree with your statement Gina.Maria, and we all want to come visit you in Germany:lol!

[tammy1999]

Agreed, Hollie, but corn as an ingredient in almost all that we eat, a feed source for livestock and raw material for fuel still makes it a financial minefield. Is anyone here from a sugar-producing area? What are your thoughts on returning to using sugar in our food production? Corn farmers? Where do your crops go?

We were farmers in Missouri for over 20 years and we could only grow corn, wheat, milo and soy beans. Corn wasn't that big of a crop because it needed alot of water and really hot there. The majority of these crops are used for human consumption and food for the farm animals. But then again, there is much more farmland that isn't used in our area because the government wants it to be wetlands. We are close to the Mississippi River. When I left Missouri in 2002 a plant was being built to use corn as a form of fuel.

Now here in Florida a plant is working on taking orange and other citrus skins and left overs to make fuel. Looks good so far. I don't live in the areas further south that has all the sugar, so I haven't heard much about that.

[kjbstevens]

The same happens here on our land. Part of our farm is for some odd reason wetlands even though there is no water so they can't plant it so that is less food/fuel that can be produced.

[Gina.Maria]

Are these "wetlands" flood plains? Or are they set aside for conservation? Is it common for all farms to have an easement of this sort? (Never been a farmer - grew up in the suburbs and the closest I got to a farm as a child was the cotton field across the road from my elementary school.)

[kjbstevens]

It's all just state laws to limit production here basically. So you have farmers with lots of extra land they could be planting stuff to make up what is lost in biofuels to food but they can't or be fined huge amounts and the gov't gives no money back on what you lose off your own private land that is farmable because before biofuels there were surpluses. They are paying taxes on this land that they can't use because the gov't says it's useless. A lot of people around here converted it to a tree farm. You can find loopholes to them just like any other law and the gov't will pay you for growing trees for later logging and it increases property value because of timber value.

[tammy1999]

Are these "wetlands" flood plains? Or are they set aside for conservation? Is it common for all farms to have an easement of this sort? (Never been a farmer - grew up in the suburbs and the closest I got to a farm as a child was the cotton field across the road from my elementary school.)

It's considered area close to ditches. What alot of farmers do, or should I say asked by the Conservation Department, with this land is plant a crop, usually milo, leave it, so the ducks and other fowl have something to eat.

And when you consider flood plains where we farmed in all that area in Missouri, its all in the flood plains.

[DirtyFeetDesigns (heb1976)]

Isn't it S.C. Johnson that uses trash to power the equipment used to make Windex, Pledge, Glade, etc ...

I thought this was interesting article from Popular Mechanics (http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/technology_news/3483031.html). The Great Alt-Fuel Debate: It takes five barrels of crude oil to produce enough gasoline (nearly 97 gal.) to power a Honda Civic from New York to California. So how do the alternative fuels that may gradually reduce America's dependence on foreign oil stack up against the mileage and convenience of the filling-station stalwart? Click here to see the chart (http://media.popularmechanics.com/documents/Fuel_of_the_Future-e852.pdf). It compares corn, natural gas, crude oil, vegatable oil, coal and hydrogen.

[kjbstevens]

That's a pretty cool chart. I've seen all of those commericals about the CNG but the side problems of that is doesn't say we only have enough for 60 years? Wouldn't that end up being a problem too?

[tammy1999]

I love the idea of solar panels here in Florida. I mean, we are the Sunshine State and have lots of that to go around all year around. But the bad side, the cost of those panels are just beyond belief. I can't understand that!! I mean, solar has been around since the 70's? Why haven't we gone forward with that for all these years?

[tammy1999]

I contacted my state govenor to ask him about what Florida is doing for energy. Here is his office's response.

Thank you for contacting Governor Charlie Crist. Governor Crist
appreciates your concerns about Florida's energy needs and asked that I
respond on his behalf.

To date, Florida has taken a very proactive position to support
renewable energy, alternative fuels and other clean technologies such as
compressed natural gas. Since the creation of the Florida Renewable
Energy Technologies and Energy Efficiency Act in 2006, which includes
rebates, grants, and other economic incentives for energy investments,
Florida has contributed millions of dollars to stimulate research,
development and commercialization of renewable energy.

There are a number of solar energy projects under development in Florida
positioning it as the second leading state in the nation for solar
energy production. Additionally, a one megawatt solar panel system will
be installed on the Orange County Convention Center making it the
largest rooftop solar panel installation in the Southeastern United
States.

In addition, Florida is investing in wind technology. Florida Power and
Light is committed to the viability of large-scale wind generation in
Florida. Up to six utility-scale wind turbines will generate
approximately 13 megawatts of electricity. The second project,
constructed by Progress Energy, will look at small-scale wind energy
generation using turbines with a smaller capacity for businesses and
residences.

Florida is currently considering all transportation fuel options
available, including compressed natural gas. The Governor's Energy
Office is also working with the state's Clean Cities Coalitions to
promote alternative fuels and advanced vehicles, fuel blends, fuel
economy, hybrid vehicles, and idle reduction. There are currently 15
compressed natural gas stations in Florida that primarily serve local
government and private business fleets. This office will continue to
work with other interested parties to increase the availability of
compressed natural gas in the marketplace.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact Governor Crist. For
information about Florida's environmental policies and alternative fuel
initiatives, please visit www.myfloridaclimate.com (http://www.myfloridaclimate.com/) and www.flgov.com (http://www.flgov.com/).

Sincerely,

Warren Davis
Office of Citizen Services

This might be a good idea to contact your state to see what are in the plans.

[Gina.Maria]

Ooh, Tammy, somthing in that letter from your governor reminded me of something! "Idle reduction." Here in Germany you're not allowed to let your car idle. Seriously. People on the street will knock on your car window and tell you , in no uncertain terms, to turn it off. I was trying to get my GPS programmed but the battery was too low to operate it without the car charger which doesn't work unless the car is running and our neighbor was going crazy yelling at me! You also have to turn your car off in heavy traffic or at train crossings when a train is passing. I assume exceptions are made when the outside temperature is 18 celcius below, but not for much else.