New report on Obama's Tax policy

[opeysmama]

Watch this one and see if you like what you hear or don't like what you hear.


http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=196103

Here is some text from the video if you do not have a chance to watch it right now...

"Senator Obama proposes a tax credit in the form of a check in the mail for mortgage interests, college tuition savings, childcare, clean cars, earned income tax credit to be expanded, a make-work-pay credit. All of these credits will be refundable to those people who don't pay taxes anyway in the form of a check in the mail. 63 million Americans would pay no federal income tax whatsoever, and most of them would get a check in the mail every January."

Do you agree that the people who don't even pay taxes should get checks even though they pay no taxes, at the expense of we Americans who do work, and pay taxes? Do you think perhaps if they're already on welfare they should NOT get more money in refunds?

[scribler]

I don't think it's fair to imply that those with zero tax liability don't work. That is just not the case. That being said, I don't think credits should result in you getting back more than you paid in. I don't mind the credits resulting in some lower income Americans getting back everything they paid in. However, once they are at the point of getting everything back, then no more credits.

[opeysmama]

I don't think it's fair to imply that those with zero tax liability don't work. That is just not the case. That being said, I don't think credits should result in you getting back more than you paid in. I don't mind the credits resulting in some lower income Americans getting back everything they paid in. However, once they are at the point of getting everything back, then no more credits.

Good point!

I meant good point about implying that those with zero tax liability don't work. That's all.

[txmusicmom]

Oh I don't think that what is what it means..........

We get close to zero with with child credit ( when we could claim all 4)

But we did pay taxes.....we just get most of it back-probably not next year as our 2 oldest have passed the *age*
-
I think is someone doesn't file a tax return , they should not get more kickback

Plus if someone is on assistance already, they shouldn't get more back.

[DirtyFeetDesigns (heb1976)]

Do you agree that the people who don't even pay taxes should get checks even though they pay no taxes, at the expense of we Americans who do work, and pay taxes? Do you think perhaps if they're already on welfare they should NOT get more money in refunds?

No they shouldn't get more money in refunds. I am sorry, but this is like income redistribution. Definition - refers to a political policy intended to even the amount of income individuals are permitted to earn. The basic premise of the redistribution of income is that money should be distributed to benefit the poorer members of society, and that the rich should be obliged to assist the poor. So in other words - punish the rich for making something of themselves. I believe they should pay higher taxes, most definitely. But, to be obligated with your own money. No way!

The comment he has made that we should be neighborly (he said this on the O'Reilly Factor) ... I think not. If I choose to give my money to a charity that helps those in need - fine. I worked my butt off to earn that money. No one is going to tell me what I should do with it. Why would an 18 year old, just out of high school, want to go to college to try to get that high paying job, if in the end he will be told what to do with it?

I am trying to find some more stuff on this.

[kjbstevens]

I think no tax liability should not get checks after the way they gave out the stimilus checks earlier this year. Those zero liability people go way up the income ladder besides just unemployed. Even people at like $40k or so can be tax exempt because of all of the tax breaks especially if they are families with lots of kids and go to college at least half time. As a family we had zero liability last year where I was still in school full time and didn't work so my husbands income somehow worked out to where we were exempt and we were certaintly well over the poverty level so we got all of the money back. They still sent us a full stimulus check too after paying nothing into them. I didn't really get it.

Then I saw McCain's plan today and the main democratics critics say it doesn't do enough to take care of businesses. I thought that was what he was doing to much of?? I swear. It's all messed up either way. LOL

[DirtyFeetDesigns (heb1976)]

That being said, I don't think credits should result in you getting back more than you paid in. I don't mind the credits resulting in some lower income Americans getting back everything they paid in. However, once they are at the point of getting everything back, then no more credits.

Exactly!

[NellieRose]

There is a lot of speculation going on here....

Can anyone point me in the direction of where it says that people who pay no taxes will get a refund?

Text below is copied and pasted directly from Barack Obama's Tax Plan:

I. TAX RELIEF FOR MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES:

At the core of Senator Obama’s tax plan is broad middle class tax relief. After the first economic recovery on record where ordinary Americans saw their incomes decline by nearly $1000, Obama believes it is critical to
focus tax relief on middle class families. Obama’s middle class tax cuts are designed to help relieve the burdens on families today, while empowering them to get ahead in the future. Barack Obama’s middle class tax cuts
include:

o A $1,000 “Making Work Pay” Tax Credit. For 95 percent of workers and their families—150 million workers overall—the “Making Work Pay” credit will provide a refundable tax cut of $500 for workers or $1,000 for working couples. This credit will benefit over 15 million self employed workers and for 10 million low-income Americans, will completely eliminate their federal income taxes.

o A Refundable $4,000 American Opportunity Tax Credit. Barack Obama will provide a $4,000 fullyrefundable tax credit to ensure that college is affordable for all American families. This credit will cover
100% of the first $4,000 of qualified tuition expenses, making community college essentially free and covering about 2/3 of the cost of public 4-year college.iv

o A Universal 10% Mortgage Interest Tax Credit. Barack Obama will provide a 10% refundable credit to offset mortgage interest payments and make homeownership more affordable for lower- and middle-income
families. This universal credit will provide an average tax cut of $500 to 10 million homeowners who do not currently itemize.

o Eliminating Income Taxes for Seniors Making Less than $50,000. Barack Obama will eliminate all income taxation of seniors making less than $50,000 per year. This will eliminate taxes for 7 million seniors – saving them an average of $1,400 a year-- and will also mean that 27 million seniors will not need to file an income tax return at all.

o Expanding Retirement Savings Incentives. To increase retirement security, Barack Obama will ensure that every American worker has the option of saving in an easy, automatic pension account and will expand
the existing Savers Credit to match 50 percent of the first $1,000 of savings for families that earn under $75,000. He will also make the Savers Credit fully refundable.

o Health Care Tax Credits. Obama’s health plan centers around tax credits that, together with his other proposals to expand pooling options and ease enrollment, will ensure that health insurance is available and affordable for all families.

o Expand the Earned Income Tax Credit: Obama will increase the number of working parents eligible for EITC benefits, increase the benefits available to noncustodial parents who fulfill their child support obligations, increase benefits for families with three or more children, and reduce the EITC marriage penalty, which hurts low-income families.

o Increase Tax Benefits for Child Care: Obama recognizes that ensuring affordable child care is critical to helping working parents get ahead. His plan will reform the Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit by making it refundable and allowing low-income families to receive up to a 50 percent credit on the first $6,000 of child care expenses. This will benefit 7.5 million working mothers.

Obama’s Middle Class Tax In Action:

WHO TAX CUT:
Married Couple Making $75,000 with two
children, one of whom is in college
$3,700
[includes $1,000 Making Work Pay; $500 universal mortgage
credit; and $4,000 college credit net of current college credits]
Married Couple making $90,000
$1,000
Single Parent making $40,000 with two
young children and childcare expenses.
$2,100
[includes $500 making work pay; $500 universal mortgage credit,
and $1,100 from Obama expansion of the child care tax credit]
70-Year Old Widow Making $35,000
$1,900
Source: Calculations based on IRS Statistics of Income. Tax savings is conservative; does not account for up to $500 in savings from
expanded Savers Credit and the $2,500 in savings per family from the Obama healthcare plan.


Link for full text on his plan: http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/taxes/Factsheet_Tax_Plan_FINAL.pdf

[NellieRose]

By the way, how convenient that that news clip is edited to make it looks more like something that it wasn't.

[kjbstevens]

It was in an article taking about how neither can talk about tax cuts right now. Obama does want rebates to people that don't pay in but even many democrats don't support his current tax proposals because of that. Go back and maybe check the new stimulus check thread. I think it was there I first saw that. I never realized the rebate until then and it was an article critical of both of them.

[NellieRose]

It was in an article taking about how neither can talk about tax cuts right now. Obama does want rebates to people that don't pay in but even many democrats don't support his current tax proposals because of that. Go back and maybe check the new stimulus check thread. I think it was there I first saw that. I never realized the rebate until then and it was an article critical of both of them.

Thank you. :)

Is this article from a reputable news outlet? Who was it that was stating this is in fact Obama's plan and from where did they get their information on the subject? Is there a link?

[opeysmama]

Oh I don't think that what is what it means..........

We get close to zero with with child credit ( when we could claim all 4)

But we did pay taxes.....we just get most of it back-probably not next year as our 2 oldest have passed the *age*
-
I think is someone doesn't file a tax return , they should not get more kickback

Plus if someone is on assistance already, they shouldn't get more back.

I agree Donna, is someone is already getting assistance already, they should NOT get any more. But they appear to be doing just exactly that under Obama's plans.

[NellieRose]

I agree Donna, is someone is already getting assistance already, they should NOT get any more. But they appear to be doing just exactly that under Obama's plans.

Examples and sources on this please.

And, who is appearing to do what under Obama's plan? He isn't even in office yet?????? :headscratch

[kjbstevens]

US News and World Report I find pretty reputable. HERE (http://biz.yahoo.com/usnews/081009/09_as_the_economy_sinks_so_do_odds_of_a_tax_cut.ht ml?.&.pf=taxes) it is.
Sorry I'd put that in the wrong thread. It went here about the rebates. LOL

[NellieRose]

US News and World Report I find pretty reputable. HERE (http://biz.yahoo.com/usnews/081009/09_as_the_economy_sinks_so_do_odds_of_a_tax_cut.ht ml?.&.pf=taxes) it is.
Sorry I'd put that in the wrong thread. It went here about the rebates. LOL

Thank you! :)

[kjbstevens]

Yeah the whole thing basically says don't worry McCain isn't cutting taxes on the wealthy and Obama is not going to get these tax cuts for the lower income people because never will pass Congress. So most of what we've been arguing is never going to happen regardless of if they are elected or not.

[NellieRose]

OK so, in that article on Yahoo Personal Finance this is the mention:

The problem with Obama's plan is that once it gets to Congress, choosing from a long list of targeted tax credits would fuel bitter fights over who deserves help and who doesn't. Even with Democrats in charge on Capitol Hill, there are fiscal conservatives in both parties sure to oppose the passage of Obama's expensive tax cuts in full. And some of his ideas--like rebates for people who don't even earn enough to pay taxes--are controversial even among Democrats.

But there is no citation of where this info comes from......that's what I am after....if you read Obama's plan there is no mention of this.

[NellieRose]

Yeah the whole thing basically says don't worry McCain isn't cutting taxes on the wealthy and Obama is not going to get these tax cuts for the lower income people because never will pass Congress. So most of what we've been arguing is never going to happen regardless of if they are elected or not.

Now this is something I can agree with! :D

[Gina.Maria]

I think many of you miss the point. First - If you don't have income, you don't file a tax return and you can't claim credits. Also, you can't get EIC unless you work. That's why they call it EARNED INCOME Credit. If you make more than someone with zero tax liability and have similar responsibilities, why should you be entitled to a greater credit? It's purpose is to help the working poor out of poverty, not give slackers a spa vacation in Cozumel. As for the other credits, some are an effort to stimulate our economy or encourage environmental practices, others are to increase access to higher education. The mortgage interest credit only does what an itemized deduction does for higher wage earners without having to itemize. All but EIC have the potential to be a credit that middle-income earners have equal access to. Look - nothing gets through without the support of Congress and Funding Authorization. Every cent spent on new programs is going to be under a microscope after the "Bailout Bill." It sounds to me as though you're looking for evil intentions behind every new proposal.

[NellieRose]

It sounds to me as though you're looking for evil intentions behind every new proposal.


;) Could not have said it better.....

[kjbstevens]

I think many of you miss the point. First - If you don't have income, you don't file a tax return and you can't claim credits.
This isn't entirely correct. There are many, many of us here that don't work because we are homemakers and SAHMs and we still file taxes because we are married. The tax credits for us all came from the people in our house not working. I claimed the credits because I was the student even though I had no income. I see what you mean about completely umemployed people but not all people on tax returns have income.

[Gina.Maria]

That's splitting hairs. Do you file separately? The EIC isn't yours, it's your partner's, based on the household size and income.

[kjbstevens]

It's not really splitting hairs though because when it came down to the stimulus checks even though I had no income I got just the same as someone who does work and pay in. That's really not fair.

[maggie965]

It's not really splitting hairs though because when it came down to the stimulus checks even though I had no income I got just the same as someone who does work and pay in. That's really not fair.

But that's based on you as a household not you as an individual. Even though you personally dont' have income, your household does. So it would be based on that. So based on the way the stimulus worked, that was perfectly fair.

[SarahMD]

Isn't it if a married couple files joint return the person making the most (whether the check comes with BOTH names on it) would be the one who qualified for the earned income credit? And the couple filing jointly get the credits for the children who are dependents?

[SarahMD]

But that's based on you as a household not you as an individual. Even though you personally dont' have income, your household does. So it would be based on that. So based on the way the stimulus worked, that was perfectly fair.

Yeah that's what I meant to say, lol. It goes by household... pretty sure. I only worked like for a total of two months the entire year... didn't make the $600 that was supposed to qualify me for the credit in the stimulus check but dh had made plenty.

[Gina.Maria]

Exactly. Are you suggesting that SAHMs' and homemakers' families don't deserve to partake in these benefits? They were never intended to exclude families who rely on a single income.

[kjbstevens]

It's still ridiculous though. It's crediting people that don't have income to credit to start with. It just makes no sense that I should benefit from a system I don't pay into. I don't get social security so why tax credits? It's picking and choosing. My education didn't come out of our income so why credit it? I guess this just brings me back to Fair Tax again. :)

[SarahMD]

I'm kind of torn, like I understand what you mean, but I feel like I put in more work than DH does even if I don't make money. But I see what you mean. Now people who just sit on their bum all day doing god knows what shouldn't be eligible (like my good for nothing brother in law) ... that I can understand.

[Gina.Maria]

It's still ridiculous though. It's crediting people that don't have income to credit to start with. It just makes no sense that I should benefit from a system I don't pay into. I don't get social security so why tax credits? It's picking and choosing. My education didn't come out of our income so why credit it? I guess this just brings me back to Fair Tax again. :)

If you're not still paying for your education, you won't get a credit. If you are, then it is coming out of your family income so you can get a credit. Simple. If you feel that strongly about it, don't apply for the credit. You don't have to take it. I've seen thousands of tax returns in my years as a financial aid officer and I've seen plenty of people miss out on credits. The IRS won't hunt you down and make you take it. Just tell your husband you're a conscientious objector and don't want any of the credits. :shrug

[kjbstevens]

No here is what I'm saying. We have no tax liability. I don't work. We paid nothing into the federal tax system other than his SS last year. They still deposited a stimulus check. If there is another one, then we will get another one. If we pay nothing in, then why should we get something out and we really aren't by any means "poor" as they say this stuff is for. How many others don't pay in and get out while others pay in and get nothing?

[Peppermint]

How did you pay nothing in federal taxes last year? Are you saying he had no federal taxes withheld from his check at all (i.e. he claims 10 dependents on his W-4)? Or that you had "x" amount withheld, and got every penny back? I'm not understanding.

[SarahMD]

Well DH and I got our withholding BACK... PLUS the earned income credit and children's credits... we also got our stimulus check.. i'll disclose how much we made - abour $33,000 i believe... I'll tell ya I don't feel POOR... just not STABLE if you know what I mean. This year he's standing to make quite a bit less because last year he had 6 months of a job making DOUBLE what he makes now... but he lost his job...

[Gina.Maria]

Well, since they call it a "stimulus check" I'd guess the motive is more about getting people to spend money than it is about helping the poor. If you want to send a message, put your stimulus check in savings. ;)

[Peppermint]

Well DH and I got our withholding BACK... PLUS the earned income credit and children's credits... we also got our stimulus check..

So in effect, you got back more from the IRS than you (the collective "you") paid in then?

Since we're talking about the stimulus checks, though, they weren't a rebate - they were an advance on your 2008 return. Meaning you'll have to claim that check as income when you file April 15th. So you didn't get that money free and clear, you'll be tacking it onto your 2008 return as a part of your gross income. The difference between it and the previous stimulus check being that if they sent you "too much" then you get to keep the difference - whereas in the original Bush Administration stimulus check, it would adjust your taxable income accordingly.

[scrapper_gal]

There is much confusion regarding the stimulus check. They were not an advance on 2008 refund. Here is the info from the IRS website http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=179211,00.html

It's not taxable, and it won't reduce your 2007 or 2008 refund or increase the amount you owe when you file your 2008 return.

[kjbstevens]

So in effect, you got back more from the IRS than you (the collective "you") paid in then?
After all we said and done we ended up with more than paid in and we make a little more than Sarah and I also don't think of ourselves as poor.

[Peppermint]

There is much confusion regarding the stimulus check. They were not an advance on 2008 refund. Here is the info from the IRS website http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=179211,00.html

It's not taxable, and it won't reduce your 2007 or 2008 refund or increase the amount you owe when you file your 2008 return.

No, I addressed that part. You get to keep the difference if they gave you too much - which in effect means "It will not reduce your refund or increase the amount you owe". It will wash out evenly OR you will make out with a little extra money if, for instance, you had a child who you could claim in 2007 that you can no longer claim in 2008.

It was an advance on a credit that will be part of the 2008 tax code. So in effect, you were just taking it early. You would have gotten it anyway on your 2008 return - now you won't. So it was just an advance.

"Your rebate is a one-time tax cut - an advance on a credit you'll receive on your 2008 return. It's based on your 2007 income initially. If it turns out that your 2008 income and number of children would have qualified you for a larger rebate than the one you received, you'll be sent the difference. If it turns out your 2008 income was lower than in 2007 and you should have gotten a lower rebate, you get to keep the difference.


"If you were supposed to receive a larger payment than you did, you will get the extra money," said Treasury spokesman Andrew DeSouza. "If you received more than what you should have gotten, you will not be penalized.""http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/08/pf/taxes/rebates_what_you_need_to_know/

[SarahMD]

I don't know I think I'm going to consult my 1040 right now. Just to be completely sure.

Ok... Looks like Fed Tax Withheld is 2604
EIC was 1781
And Additional Child tax Credit is 1297

You know I'm not really sure... I think I done confused myself....

[Peppermint]

I knew I should have had more kids.

Although then I'd have a whole new set of problems. LOL

[SarahMD]

I don't know how much he paid in... I may not be remembering correctly... the whole tax thing drives me crazy anyway.

[Gina.Maria]

I knew I should have had more kids.

Although then I'd have a whole new set of problems. LOL

I don't find tax credits enough of a motivator to have more kids. The ones I have are challenge enough and the tax credits never did make up for the damage they can cause. :giggle

[scrapper_gal]

It is technically true that your refund will be reduced by the stimulus check. However, there is a new credit added to the 1040 that has never been there before - the Recovery Rebate Credit. If you rec'd the stimulus check than you are not eligible for the Recovery Rebate. You will have to work through an additional worksheet and carry the result onto the 1040. The stimulus check was an advance on a new credit that will appear for the first time (and maybe the only time) on the 2008 1040.

A very simplified example for a married couple with 2 kids (assuming no significant changes from year to year, yada, yada...)
If you would normally get a $2000 refund on your return and you rec'd the stimulus check, you will still get a $2000 refund. If you normally receive a $2000 refund and did not receive and economic stimulus check your refund will be $3800. If you didn't get everything you should have rec'd you will get a partial Recovery Rebate credit. However, if your stimulus check was more than the Recovery rebate you won't owe anything back.

[SarahMD]

well we are a married couple with 2 kids and got only 1300 (some odd dollar) which I had initially thought we were entitled to the 1800 but didn't get it... thanks for making it more clear though. I have a better understanding of it now.

[dodo]

It's not really splitting hairs though because when it came down to the stimulus checks even though I had no income I got just the same as someone who does work and pay in. That's really not fair.


so did you send it back to them ?

[SarahMD]

I know I certainly didn't... if I was overpaid oh well. Needless to say my family needed it. Caught us up on bills!

[kjbstevens]

I think the point I'm trying to make is I don't see why the tax bracket I'm in really needs the tax cuts when there are many of us that already don't pay taxes. It sounds great to cut taxes on these people, but how many in the group is actually going to have a tax liability to cut after credits? Some of us are already getting a free ride as it is on them.

[txmusicmom]

Why would an 18 year old, just out of high school, want to go to college to try to get that high paying job, if in the end he will be told what to do with it?



:clap:clap:clap

Exactly..........

[gavins mom]

I am TIRED of my hard earned money going to people who don't work or do anything to help themselves.
Give a man a fish & you feed him for a day. Teach him to fish & you feed him for a lifetime.

[Microferk ~ Miki Ferkul]

But what if all the big company's own all the rivers and ponds and arrest trespassers?
Sorry :giggle I just had to play a little with the analogy.....

[SarahMD]

I think the point I'm trying to make is I don't see why the tax bracket I'm in really needs the tax cuts when there are many of us that already don't pay taxes. It sounds great to cut taxes on these people, but how many in the group is actually going to have a tax liability to cut after credits? Some of us are already getting a free ride as it is on them.

What income level are the cuts affecting, lets say for a family. I'm just trying to get a better understanding. Clearly your family's income is higher than ours and you feel you don't need the tax cut. Believe me if we were in the position of not needing it I would feel the same (hopefully once the jobs around here get better and I finish my schooling we'll be there). Everyday life is so hard because of the living paycheck to paycheck situation.

And what is Obama's (or is it the government in general) definition of Middle Class. I certainly don't want to think of us as Low Class kwim? But if Middle Class is still like 75,000 then what does that make my family ya know? There must be a lot that goes into figuring where to draw the line... no matter what the income the expenses for each family I'm sure is differed for the individual family... how do they know ??