Anyone catch Frontline tonight?

[kjbstevens]

On PBS? It was really, really good and went back through the histories of both of the candidates and showing their reasons behind where the stand. If you all get a chance this week watch the replay. It explains a lot about both of them.

[nightlily]

I will def. have to check this out. Thanks for the heads up!

[Chreamps]

Thanks for the heads up! Here's a link where you can watch it, but I'll have to wait till tomorrow.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/choice2008/

[HLWalter725]

Sounds like a good watch. Thanks for the info!!!

[kjbstevens]

I was really, really suprised by some of the stuff I learned about both of them from it.

I finally understand why McCain is so for winning Iraq after his feeling about staying a POW and coming back to a lost war because he doesn't want those soliders to deal with what he did. Then he sort of went to pieces for years until the military made him an escort for politicans that got him into the game of politics. He definately has a temper though. They showed that especially courting leaving the party after Bush won and that's why he was so into taking on the party was more out of hatred of Bush and what he did instead of the party itself.

It helped me see what Obama did with the community stuff. It did sort of make me leery about his boss saying he only hired him because he was black and that he won his first election because he had everyone else taken off the ballot for voter fraud. All of the stuff he did at Harvard though was really good. That whole thing was greatly needed for someone to step up and do. It never really showed what he actually did that helped people, but it did show that he did at least inspire people to want to do better which without that mindframe it doesn't happen so that was good.

It showed both as humans good and bad. It really does help explain their policies though big time. I don't think it showed any of them in a scandelous or unfair way because they showed the good and bad of both pretty equally. It's probably a nice thing for us all to find some common ground with.

[txmusicmom]

I finally understand why McCain is so for winning Iraq after his feeling about staying a POW and coming back to a lost war because he doesn't want those soliders to deal with what he did. Then he sort of went to pieces for years until the military made him an escort for politicans that got him into the game of politics. He definately has a temper though. They showed that especially courting leaving the party after Bush won and that's why he was so into taking on the party was more out of hatred of Bush and what he did instead of the party itself.
.

I'm sure there are some good things in this- I'll try to watch it. PBS isn't known for being totally neutral. It seems to show motive on both issues and that's conjecture unless he has said it himself. I think McCain is a bigger man than to take on the Republican party out of hatred for Bush.

Media-
Last night on David Letterman- the guy who plays Bush proudly announced Vote for Obama.....
He has his nightly McCain *video* joke- which is fine-- I haven't seen an Obama one yet. ( doesn't mean there hasn't been one--but I've seen McCain at least 3 times.

This morning on a news show- showing the oldest person who will vote ( from the Vatican) She's 106- Cute little gal. They said while we didn't ask-- she told them she was voting for Obama....yes in her own voice-
interesting that that didn't get edited out.


I have NO problem with any of this............I just don't see as much coverage of those who support McCain- I did see one guy on Letterman- I can't recall his name although he did a very nice job explaining why he supported him.

[kjbstevens]

I don't know a lot of his stuff with the party back a few years ago was only against Bush policy which is why I'm trying to figure out why people think he is more of him. I just found it amusing as a McCain supporter myself. It was a lot more pro-McCain than usual. They actually explained out how is one of the very few that actually really has been bipartisan in solving problems compared to Obama usually only listening to his leadership and explaining why he was running now. The democratic leadership told him to do it before he had a voting record for people to tear apart. Great advice Daschle and the words came from his mouth that he told him this. There were points they were showing like that which you usually don't get from PBS. They really did a much better job than usual and I'm a usual media hater too.

[NellieRose]

I just found it amusing as a McCain supporter myself. It was a lot more pro-McCain than usual. They actually explained out how is one of the very few that actually really has been bipartisan in solving problems compared to Obama usually only listening to his leadership and explaining why he was running now.

In all fairness your perception is somewhat misleading and makes it sound as if Barack Obama hasn't done anything through bipartisan measures and only took marching orders from higher ups.....if I am correct, since 2005 John McCain has had more bipartisan activities than Barack Obama but in no way means Obama does not/did not take part in reaching across the so called aisle.

What I found interesting in the Frontline piece was that McCain almost left the Republican party and switched over to the Democratic party.......

[DirtyFeetDesigns (heb1976)]

I have NO problem with any of this............I just don't see as much coverage of those who support McCain- I did see one guy on Letterman- I can't recall his name although he did a very nice job explaining why he supported him.

That is along the same lines of the Doonesbury comic about Todd and Sara Palin. They were saying if the tables were turned and all about Biden and his family ... it would have been a very big deal. Oh well, what can you do?!

[lunafaerie]

That is along the same lines of the Doonesbury comic about Todd and Sara Palin. They were saying if the tables were turned and all about Biden and his family ... it would have been a very big deal. Oh well, what can you do?!

I didn't see that comic, what are you referring too?

[DirtyFeetDesigns (heb1976)]

if I am correct, since 2005 John McCain has had more bipartisan activities than Barack Obama but in no way means Obama does not/did not take part in reaching across the so called aisle.



Measuring The Candidates' Bipartisan Efforts (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92111942)

Comparing Obama and McCain on bipartisanship is a little like comparing apples and oranges. Obama has only been in the Senate for three years, and he voted with his party 97 percent of the time.

McCain — who has been in the Senate since 1987 — voted with his party just 83 percent of the time.

If the criteria are who has stuck his neck out on difficult issues and paid the price for doing it, McCain has done it over Obama. But Mike Murphy, a former McCain strategist, says that doesn't mean Obama doesn't aspire to the same thing.

"I think McCain is the guy who has done the things in a post-partisan way that have cost him tough political pain," Murphy said. "I think Barack Obama is the guy who says he wants to do it — and I believe him, by the way — but has never really left the wounds on the floor. That doesn't mean Barack is incapable of it, or doesn't even mean that he doesn't want to do it. He just hasn't. McCain has."

[~ashleigh]

I watched all but the first 15 min (PTO meeting :) ), and found it very interesting. Most was very similar to the CNN specials last month, but I like that they spent more time looking at the candidates leadership skills.

[HLWalter725]

Media-
Last night on David Letterman- the guy who plays Bush proudly announced Vote for Obama.....
He has his nightly McCain *video* joke- which is fine-- I haven't seen an Obama one yet. ( doesn't mean there hasn't been one--but I've seen McCain at least 3 times.



FWIW (and maybe not much) Letterman is still personally sore over McCain canceling on him at the last minute to fly back to DC to solve the financial crisis but instead went to CBS w/Katie Couric. So I think a lot of his biases are relatively new and borne in that bitterness. From what I've read, Letterman can hold a grudge a long time.

[NellieRose]

Measuring The Candidates' Bipartisan Efforts (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92111942)

Comparing Obama and McCain on bipartisanship is a little like comparing apples and oranges. Obama has only been in the Senate for three years, and he voted with his party 97 percent of the time.

Apples and oranges is right, I didn't speak of voting records. I am referring to bills they have sponsored or co-sponsored and then signed into law and only comparing for the time BOTH were in office....so, again, McCain does lead him on that at about 55% percent to Obama's 13% but my position was that kjbstevens perception made it seem that Obama didn't have any bipartisan measures....even so, once again it is apples and oranges in the percentage of bills sponsored/co-sponsored for bipartisan measures but it also shows that Obama has, in fact, done so, which was my point. :)

Now, we could look at just what McCain was offering up that he got so many Democrtas to get behind him and co-sponsor those bills but that would be adding bananas to the apples and oranges mix.

[kjbstevens]

Well it all comes down to even after watching the show with it being from a station that leans towards him normally I don't see much of anything that will make him want to work with the right because his politics are so far from it. His ideas are the exact opposite. I don't see how that is really disputable. They do bills and things like that for political gain and they'd never get passed without both people in the climate they've had. If they are in control of congress and the president he doesn't need them. I doubt he'll ask very hard either after this election cycle either. We're all entitled to our opinions on it after viewing everything out there. He's left leaning and it's just the way it is. I'm not saying he is wrong for it... just that it is there and he doesn't share much in common with the right to work with.

[NellieRose]

Well it all comes down to even after watching the show with it being from a station that leans towards him normally I don't see much of anything that will make him want to work with the right because his politics are so far from it. His ideas are the exact opposite. I don't see how that is really disputable. They do bills and things like that for political gain and they'd never get passed without both people in the climate they've had. If they are in control of congress and the president he doesn't need them. I doubt he'll ask very hard either after this election cycle either. We're all entitled to our opinions on it after viewing everything out there. He's left leaning and it's just the way it is. I'm not saying he is wrong for it... just that it is there and he doesn't share much in common with the right to work with.

Hopefully, if he is elected President, you will be pleasantly surprised as to what he does while in office. :)

[kjbstevens]

Doubtful, but he'll just keep throwing money and benefits for us that we don't pay for. Either that or stop all of this giving and cutting because he'll already be elected and then it won't matter. I just don't see that stuff as responsible. I dunno. I'm not saying Oscar the Grouch is going to be a picnic either just a preference to me.

[hellosunshine]

I watched the Frontline piece last night and really enjoyed it. I was impressed by McCain holding Rumsfield to the fire and also someone else that was testifying before Congress--my mind went blank as to who it was. The animosity between McCain and Bush was very apparent and must still exist. Bush played some pretty dirty tricks that McCain could not forget. I also enjoyed seeing Obama in his younger days at Harvard and how inclusive he was with all different types of students. He has natural leadership qualities. On Monday Nights PBS has a series called the American Experience that looks at each presidency. The one I saw this week was about Nixon. Scary!!

[JCSimon]

I watched the Frontline piece last night and really enjoyed it. I was impressed by McCain holding Rumsfield to the fire and also someone else that was testifying before Congress--my mind went blank as to who it was. The animosity between McCain and Bush was very apparent and must still exist. Bush played some pretty dirty tricks that McCain could not forget. I also enjoyed seeing Obama in his younger days at Harvard and how inclusive he was with all different types of students. He has natural leadership qualities. On Monday Nights PBS has a series called the American Experience that looks at each presidency. The one I saw this week was about Nixon. Scary!!


Yep. Nixon was *very* scary....but Bush is scarier! :eek

[txmusicmom]

Measuring The Candidates' Bipartisan Efforts (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92111942)

Comparing Obama and McCain on bipartisanship is a little like comparing apples and oranges. Obama has only been in the Senate for three years, and he voted with his party 97 percent of the time.

McCain — who has been in the Senate since 1987 — voted with his party just 83 percent of the time.

If the criteria are who has stuck his neck out on difficult issues and paid the price for doing it, McCain has done it over Obama. But Mike Murphy, a former McCain strategist, says that doesn't mean Obama doesn't aspire to the same thing.

"I think McCain is the guy who has done the things in a post-partisan way that have cost him tough political pain," Murphy said. "I think Barack Obama is the guy who says he wants to do it — and I believe him, by the way — but has never really left the wounds on the floor. That doesn't mean Barack is incapable of it, or doesn't even mean that he doesn't want to do it. He just hasn't. McCain has."

Exactly- I don't think Barack is some sinister bad guy- although I do believe he has hung out with some- but that's another thread-

He has a lot of IDEAS........but I'm a big idea person myself........:blush
I have MANY more ideas........than I implement. I would feel
better if I could see what he's actually done. (NOT that he has done nothing) Just by the sheer age difference, McCain has had more opportunity to do more.

It just boils down to--- McCain has put his money where his mouth is.
McCain has stood up to Republicans........ At this point in his life, he
could just sit back, relax, take it easy.....but I truly believe he is
running for President to DO something- His passion to make this
country a better place. ( I believe Barack has the same passion)
I, too, am a passionate person ( :lol-- but you knew that already)

I think McCain just has more credentials.....a longer *Done That * list.

[4noisyboys]

FWIW (and maybe not much) Letterman is still personally sore over McCain canceling on him at the last minute to fly back to DC to solve the financial crisis but instead went to CBS w/Katie Couric. So I think a lot of his biases are relatively new and borne in that bitterness. From what I've read, Letterman can hold a grudge a long time.

I just heard that McCain is supposed to be a guest on David Letterman tonight (they said Thursday...so I'm assuming it's tonight...it could be next week).

[Chreamps]

Here's a link if anyone wants to watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_I3Gr-O2Ak