Was young Obama Indonesian citizen? [Archive]

DirtyFeetDesigns (heb1976)

10-25-2008, 09:35 AM

I think you would love to find anything to prove whatever point it is that you are trying to make. There is nothing here that proves anything to me.

I want the truth! That is all ... the truth! Please link me to some viable information so I can make a better judgment of him.

Why will he not talk about his life during his college years ...

Why did he change his name from Barry Soetoro to Barack Obama. Why is there no legal name change registered?

Why was he registered as a citizen of Indonesia in his school records? Did his father lie just to enroll him. At the time, Indonesia did not recognize dual citizenship, they changed that *I think* in 2006. So, from what I understand - he would have had to be an Indonesian citizen.

Prompted by Obama's statements, ABC News contacted the presidential candidate's campaign, which affirmed that in 1981 – the year Obama transferred from Occidental College to Columbia University – Obama visited his mother and sister Maya in Indonesia. Obama then went on to Pakistan with a friend from college whose family was from that country, the campaign said. At the time, in 1981, travel to the country was banned and Americans were clearly unwelcome.

So then he had an Indonesian passport? Agian, Indonesia did not recognize dual citizenship in '81.

I personally think this is important, just as I think it is important why McCain refuses to release the information about the POW/MIA's during Vietnam. What is he hiding? I have tried searching info about the connections McCain has with some names some of you have posted. I cannot find anything to post because there really isn't anything. William Timmons, search him ... nothing really comes other then what we already know.

4noisyboys

10-25-2008, 09:36 AM

DirtyFeetDesigns (heb1976)

10-25-2008, 09:36 AM

I guess I don't understand why it makes you wonder. People do have babies while traveling or in the military in other countries, that doesn't change the fact that they are US citizens. My SIL's army dad was stationed in Germany when she was born. She is a US citizen.

Being born in Kenya and being born in Germany when your US parent is in the military are two totally different things.

Edited to add :
Link (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=72656) : The Washington claim states, "If in fact Obama was born in Kenya, the laws on the books in the United States at the time of his birth stated if a child is born abroad and one parent was a U.S. Citizen, which would have been his mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, Obama's mother would have had to live ten (10) years in the United States, five (5) of which were after the age of fourteen (14). At the time of Obama's birth, his mother was only eighteen (18) and therefore did not meet the residency requirements under the law to give her son (Obama) U.S. Citizenship much less the status of 'natural born.'"

scrapper_gal

10-25-2008, 09:44 AM

I think you would love to find anything to prove whatever point it is that you are trying to make. There is nothing here that proves anything to me.

That is an incredibly condescending statement.

4noisyboys

10-25-2008, 09:47 AM

I want the truth! That is all ... the truth! Please link me to some viable information so I can make a better judgment of him.

Why will he not talk about his life during his college years ...

Why did he change his name from Barry Soetoro to Barack Obama. Why is there no legal name change registered?

Why was he registered as a citizen of Indonesia in his school records? Did his father lie just to enroll him. At the time, Indonesia did not recognize dual citizenship, they changed that *I think* in 2006. So, from what I understand - he would have had to be an Indonesian citizen.

Prompted by Obama's statements, ABC News contacted the presidential candidate's campaign, which affirmed that in 1981 – the year Obama transferred from Occidental College to Columbia University – Obama visited his mother and sister Maya in Indonesia. Obama then went on to Pakistan with a friend from college whose family was from that country, the campaign said. At the time, in 1981, travel to the country was banned and Americans were clearly unwelcome.

So then he had an Indonesian passport? Agian, Indonesia did not recognize dual citizenship in '81.

I personally think this is important, just as I think it is important why McCain refuses to release the information about the POW/MIA's during Vietnam. What is he hiding? I have tried searching info about the connections McCain has with some names some of you have posted. I cannot find anything to post because there really isn't anything. William Timmons, search him ... nothing really comes other then what we already know.

I guess these things just don't concern me, and if there was anything really to them, they would've already come out.

So...if I put down my kid's religion as "Christian" or Protestant...which might happen if they were to be in the hospital or some other reason. Maybe later in life, they decide to change their religion...does this still make them a Christian? Even if his step father put his religion as Muslim, it doesn't make him one unless he chooses that faith now in his life. It is not a race...it is a religion. Then, I have to ask...WHO CARES if he is a Muslim or not anyway? I certainly don't. I have many wonderful Muslim friends...it is not an issue with us.

I don't care how he travelled to Indonesia...I don't know if he has a passport or not...I don't care. Sorry...I just don't.

It just sounds to me like so many are so afraid of Obama. Here (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27369927/) is an article about how the Christian right are stepping up attacks on Obama. They paint a picture of total doom and gloom. These are the same people that felt that Bush should be president. Sorry...that's a picture of doom and gloom that I don't want to see anymore. I'm ready for a change and my vote will go to Obama.

4noisyboys

10-25-2008, 09:48 AM

That is an incredibly condescending statement.

I don't really think so.

DirtyFeetDesigns (heb1976)

10-25-2008, 09:52 AM

I guess these things just don't concern me, and if there was anything really to them, they would've already come out.

So...if I put down my kid's religion as "Christian" or Protestant...which might happen if they were to be in the hospital or some other reason. Maybe later in life, they decide to change their religion...does this still make them a Christian? Even if his step father put his religion as Muslim, it doesn't make him one unless he chooses that faith now in his life. It is not a race...it is a religion. Then, I have to ask...WHO CARES if he is a Muslim or not anyway? I certainly don't. I have many wonderful Muslim friends...it is not an issue with us.

I don't care how he travelled to Indonesia...I don't know if he has a passport or not...I don't care. Sorry...I just don't.

It just sounds to me like so many are so afraid of Obama. Here (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27369927/) is an article about how the Christian right are stepping up attacks on Obama. They paint a picture of total doom and gloom. These are the same people that felt that Bush should be president. Sorry...that's a picture of doom and gloom that I don't want to see anymore. I'm ready for a change and my vote will go to Obama.

Look I am not one of the Christian rights people. I am your typical American wanting to be informed. This stuff does bug me and I am trying to figure it out. If it doesn't bother you fine ... that is ok. but proving someone to be a US Citizen I think is important when running for President.

Now I was just informed by my husband that if Obama were to bring in the certificate of his live birth to the post office to get a passport ... he would be denied. He would have to show the Certificate of Vital Records. I have grabbed both my boys certificates and they both say Vital Record - not live birth. I do not know if all the post offices have this same requirement as my husband only works for one ... but I am assuming. If that certificate isn't good enough for a passport ... why is a good enough to prove you can run for the oval office? An honest question.

DirtyFeetDesigns (heb1976)

10-25-2008, 09:54 AM

So...if I put down my kid's religion as "Christian" or Protestant...which might happen if they were to be in the hospital or some other reason. Maybe later in life, they decide to change their religion...does this still make them a Christian? Even if his step father put his religion as Muslim, it doesn't make him one unless he chooses that faith now in his life. It is not a race...it is a religion. Then, I have to ask...WHO CARES if he is a Muslim or not anyway? I certainly don't. I have many wonderful Muslim friends...it is not an issue with us.

This I agree with you on because I went to a Catholic school, was baptized Catholic - but I do not practice nor acknowledge that I am Catholic. I am no religion because I do not believe in organized religion, I do believe in God tho. I am not making a big deal that he may be Muslim. I added that info because it seemed important to some people and it was something new that I personally had not seen.

4noisyboys

10-25-2008, 09:55 AM

Look I am not one of the Christian rights people. I am your typical American wanting to be informed. This stuff does bug me and I am trying to figure it out. If it doesn't bother you fine ... that is ok. but proving someone to be a US Citizen I think is important when running for President.

Now I was just informed by my husband that if Obama were to bring in the certificate of his live birth to the post office to get a passport ... he would be denied. He would have to show the Certificate of Vital Records. I have grabbed both my boys certificates and they both say Vital Record - not live birth. I do not know if all the post offices have this same requirement as my husband only works for one ... but I am assuming. If that certificate isn't good enough for a passport ... why is a good enough to prove you can run for the oval office? An honest question.

I just got three passports last year for our family, and we all used certificates of live birth. I actually have them sitting here in a file next to my computer, and pulled them out to be sure.

I appreciate the fact that you just want to have answers.

ETA: and at that...I must be off. I have some shopping to get done, and then my son has a band competition today that will go late into the evening! I hope you find the answers that you are looking for...honestly I do. :)

scrapper_gal

10-25-2008, 10:00 AM

Being born in Kenya and being born in Germany when your US parent is in the military are two totally different things.

Edited to add :
Link (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=72656) : The Washington claim states, "If in fact Obama was born in Kenya, the laws on the books in the United States at the time of his birth stated if a child is born abroad and one parent was a U.S. Citizen, which would have been his mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, Obama's mother would have had to live ten (10) years in the United States, five (5) of which were after the age of fourteen (14). At the time of Obama's birth, his mother was only eighteen (18) and therefore did not meet the residency requirements under the law to give her son (Obama) U.S. Citizenship much less the status of 'natural born.'"

There are 2 points of issues here and Obama could clear them up if he would release his birth certificate and related information (how about hospital bills, anything that proves he was born in Hawaii and not Kenya). I don't believe he has been willing to do this. Interestingly, much of the research into his background has been done by Democrats (admittedly they were Clinton supporters) so it is and unfair criticism to label this as a "right wing conspiracy".

Was Barack Obama born in Hawaii?

If he was not born in Hawaii than he was not a "natural born citizen" and is not eligible to be president. If his mother was truly only 18, than he was not even a citizen by birth.

The second issue is probably less of an issue for me as the law has been changed since than that would make him a citizen. However, it is essential that he be honest about where he was born. If it is not an issue, than just address it and prove otherwise and we will move on.

Glueless Media

10-25-2008, 10:01 AM

Look I am not one of the Christian rights people. I am your typical American wanting to be informed. This stuff does bug me and I am trying to figure it out. If it doesn't bother you fine ... that is ok. but proving someone to be a US Citizen I think is important when running for President.

Now I was just informed by my husband that if Obama were to bring in the certificate of his live birth to the post office to get a passport ... he would be denied. He would have to show the Certificate of Vital Records. I have grabbed both my boys certificates and they both say Vital Record - not live birth. I do not know if all the post offices have this same requirement as my husband only works for one ... but I am assuming. If that certificate isn't good enough for a passport ... why is a good enough to prove you can run for the oval office? An honest question.

UNDERLINED:) Is why I am researching it all, making my own opinion for myself:) NOT because of mine or his religion:)

tammy1999

10-25-2008, 10:02 AM

I guess these things just don't concern me, and if there was anything really to them, they would've already come out.

So...if I put down my kid's religion as "Christian" or Protestant...which might happen if they were to be in the hospital or some other reason. Maybe later in life, they decide to change their religion...does this still make them a Christian? Even if his step father put his religion as Muslim, it doesn't make him one unless he chooses that faith now in his life. It is not a race...it is a religion. Then, I have to ask...WHO CARES if he is a Muslim or not anyway? I certainly don't. I have many wonderful Muslim friends...it is not an issue with us.

I don't care how he travelled to Indonesia...I don't know if he has a passport or not...I don't care. Sorry...I just don't.

It just sounds to me like so many are so afraid of Obama. Here (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27369927/) is an article about how the Christian right are stepping up attacks on Obama. They paint a picture of total doom and gloom. These are the same people that felt that Bush should be president. Sorry...that's a picture of doom and gloom that I don't want to see anymore. I'm ready for a change and my vote will go to Obama.

I would love to know the answers too. This country might vote in a president that we don't know that much about. And you think Christian rights are gloom and doom? I don't think so.

If Obama's campaign isn't worried about his past, then lay it out on the table. The Dem's seem to love to crucify anything Palin does when she walks out the door everyday, why can't the Republican's ask for some answers. Oh wait! I think thats against the law some where.

hellosunshine

10-25-2008, 10:08 AM

http://rightwingnews.com/mt331/2008/10/barack_obama_is_an_american_ci.php

Wouldn't it be nice if we had a contemporaneous corroboration of Obama's Hawaii birth? As it happens, we do -- provided by another PUMA who wanted to find ways to disqualify Obama. Lori Starfelt found this in the archives of the Honolulu Advertiser in a print copy from August 1961:
http://rightwingnews.com/graphics/barack_obama_birth.jpg
Unless people want to start claiming that the conspiracy to have Barack Obama infiltrate the political system started at the moment of his birth, that's pretty conclusive evidence that Obama was born in the US and is a natural-born citizen.

vegaschristina

10-25-2008, 10:19 AM

There are 2 points of issues here and Obama could clear them up if he would release his birth certificate and related information (how about hospital bills, anything that proves he was born in Hawaii and not Kenya).

I don't know about you, but I don't actually have copies of the hospital bills of my birth. I have nothing, short of my birth certificate, that proves I was born in Savannah, GA. I have lived overseas. Does that mean I may not be a citizen?

Obama HAS released his birth certificate. Really. He has.

And if Obama wasn't qualified, by nature of his citizenship, to be president, don't you think it would have come out LONG LONG LONG before 10 days before the election? I don't know...like during the primaries?

strangejen

10-25-2008, 10:21 AM

I don't know...like during the primaries?

yeah, surely ole Hillary would have grabbed that and ran with it . . . she really wants to be president. LOL

Nzingha

10-25-2008, 10:24 AM

I usually don't post on these threds, just read them but I think I can help sort some of this out. As I'm an American Muslim living in Saudi Arabia and gave birth to two children here.

1. If your child is born abroud you have to get a born abroud birth certificate from the US embassy in that country. You are NOT issued a state birth certificate that you are a resident of. And you wouldn't be able to obtain one if you tried.

2. The rules of her having to be in the US for a certain period of time ONLY relates to those who were NOT BORN THERE. I just went through this whole confusing part of the paper work registering my fifth child born in March here. Of course I filled out a bunch of stuff to prove we were in the US during certain years which I never had to. Since his mother was born in the US and held a US passport she could pass that citizenship onto her child no issues even if the father is not a US citizen.

Now my last duaghter born here in Saudi may not be able to pass on her citizenship if she marries a non US citizen unless she resides in the US for a certain period of time as was stated in this thread (also keep in mind these rules change from time to time I don't know what they were 30 years ago as this wasn't an issue for many of the American women I know married to Saudis who have daughters my age)

3. Mothers travel full term in order to give birth in their respective countries it isn't uncommon among us expacts. Drs will fudge records saying we are w/in the time as long as there are no medical conditions to worry about. I have no doubts his mom would travel that late in her pregnancy because it is so common.

4. For most Muslim countries for a woman to remarry a man and bring along her child/ren into her new husbands home it isn't easy. Many think if she remarries she should give her children to their father so in order to avoid those problems it could very well have been that the Indonesian husband had to claim the child as his on various records. of course we aren't talking the most modern of record keeping in indonesia today let alone thirty years ago.

Just to give you an example of how severe this issue is, an Indonesian working here in Saudi who may get deported from the country for whateer reason and who would usualy have a two year block before they could legally return to work in the country simply go home, change their names on a new passoport and are back within several months. This is common practice in several countries and is a problem for all the GCC states that depend on foriegn workers.

Now I have no problem, because I know how things work it is the same here, that the father claimed Barak as his own son, and even a Muslim in order to get him into school. It would have been much easier, and probably his only option.

Now if his stepfather did claim him as his own in order to avoid any hassle he would HAVE TO PUT MUSLIM as the religion or be in trouble w/ the officials. NO child can be accepted as anything but a Muslim if their father is a Muslim. I know American women who are Christians married to Saudis and don't raise their children Muslim but on EVERY SINGLE DOCUMENT it is stated they are Muslim or there will be huge legal troubles.

I do recall seeing interviews with some of the school staff in Indonesia that remembered Barak and they were clear he was Christian. You might be able to dig up those interviews.

I should also note that a child born overseas is a NATURAL citizen of the united states if their mother or parents are US citizens. My two children born in Saudi Arabia are NATURAL citizens. As that is the citizenship they are born with. One might have to challenge a stronger definition to what a natural citizen is because so many expatriates have children in other parts of the world to assume their children can't run for president some day because their parents accepted employment in another country is rediculous, at least to me.

One last thing I'll point out three of my children were born in the US all of which I have passports for with their live birth documents. I do think what one requires depends on the state, or who is sitting behind the desk.

Scorpiosue1102

10-25-2008, 10:32 AM

Here are multiple sites regarding Obama's birth certificate:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/obama-birth.html
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
http://www.newsweek.com/id/154599
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/12/11012/6168/320/534616
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/15/internet.rumors/index.html?iref=newssearch

I have no doubt that if the Republicans thought he was born in Kenya they'd be on it like a rabid dog.

Nzingha

10-25-2008, 10:33 AM

There are 2 points of issues here and Obama could clear them up if he would release his birth certificate and related information (how about hospital bills, anything that proves he was born in Hawaii and not Kenya). .....

If he was not born in Hawaii than he was not a "natural born citizen" and is not eligible to be president. If his mother was truly only 18, than he was not even a citizen by birth.

Man I sure do hope that isn't the next requirement when I renew my three childrens passports that were in the states

"can you provide a bill or anything besides the birth certificate to prove your kids were born in the place you claim". I would be out of luck and my children would be passportless.

And even if his mom was only 18 at the time of the birth because she was born and raised in the US she could pass on her citizenship as was explained to me as I recieved the passport of my son, a natural us citizen, who was born abroud here in Saudi Arabia.

Scorpiosue1102

10-25-2008, 10:35 AM

yeah, surely ole Hillary would have grabbed that and ran with it . . . she really wants to be president. LOL

Yep. On one of my links the Clinton campaign had to admit that he was born in the US.

Thank you Nzingha for your insightful information.

~ashleigh

10-25-2008, 10:47 AM

Thank you Nzingha for your insightful information.

Ditto :)

txmusicmom

10-25-2008, 10:55 AM

[quote=Simonetta Rossi (Scorpiosue1102)I have no doubt that if the Republicans thought he was born in Kenya they'd be on it like a rabid dog.[/quote]

Actually it is a Democrat that has filed the lawsuit.

Microferk ~ Miki Ferkul

10-25-2008, 11:10 AM

Glueless Media

10-25-2008, 11:23 AM

Thanks for the info hello. I had been tracking that blog so was interested in seeing an update.

Nzingha (http://www.digishoptalk.com/boards/member.php?u=3297) thank you for sharing that insight I do love hearing about other cultures and how they do things.:)

Scorpiosue1102

10-25-2008, 11:28 AM

Actually it is a Democrat that has filed the lawsuit.

I know, but my point is if the Republicans thought that he was not born in the US they would have gone after that. They may already be doing that. I guess I don't understand how many people have to see the raised seal on his actual birth certificate before it is not questioned.

Chreamps

10-25-2008, 12:01 PM

Thank you, Nzingha, for all the information regarding Americans living outside the United States. Since I have never lived abroad, it is very educational.

Since natural born citizenship was brought up, and I agree with others that I think both candidates' are qualified to run for president in respect to natural born citizenship, here (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/11/us/politics/11mccain.html?_r=2&oref=slogin) is an article where a professor was questioning McCain's natural born citizenship. Note: It is back from July 2008.

The question being brought up, though, has been educational in learning the definition of natural born citizenship. Just think, maybe one of our children will run for president one day and we can be sure we have them "prequalified"!

txmusicmom

10-25-2008, 12:02 PM

Haley64

10-25-2008, 12:17 PM

Man I sure do hope that isn't the next requirement when I renew my three childrens passports that were in the states

"can you provide a bill or anything besides the birth certificate to prove your kids were born in the place you claim". I would be out of luck and my children would be passportless.

And even if his mom was only 18 at the time of the birth because she was born and raised in the US she could pass on her citizenship as was explained to me as I recieved the passport of my son, a natural us citizen, who was born abroud here in Saudi Arabia.

Thank you for clarifying this very important part! His mother was a united states citizen the moment she was born here!

4noisyboys

10-25-2008, 12:31 PM

I would love to know the answers too. This country might vote in a president that we don't know that much about. And you think Christian rights are gloom and doom? I don't think so.

Actually, I didn't say Christian rights are gloom and doom. I linked you to an article where the Christian right is portraying a picture of gloom and doom under an Obama presidency. Also, saying the last 8 years have been nothing but gloom and doom under Bush. IMHO :)

Scorpiosue1102

10-25-2008, 12:54 PM

Obama gave a short blurb about his medical records. All his levels are fine and he's on Nicoret (sp?)

Biden gave a bit more because of his aneurysm's, but is in good health.

McCain gave his 1,200 page records for three hours and no copies were allowed to be made (all I believe were in an article by Dr. Sanjay Gupta of CNN and a NY Times article. They question McCain's last melanoma surgery because Stage IIA has a 60% survival for 10 years, which is what McCain's records show. Many doctors though say he should have been under Stage III because of the amount of lymph nodes taken out. In that case it's a 36% survival for 10 years.

Palin has not given any medical records. She said she would release them (interview with Brian Williams), but they have not been released as of yet.

What information are you looking for regarding Obama's school records?

Gina.Maria

10-25-2008, 02:56 PM

One thing to remember is the laws that were in place when he was born ( same year as me.......)

It's just sad that they didn't respond- it would be so easy

But then he hasn't released his college records or medical records......( I've heard- could be wrong)

What college records would that be? Financial Aid records would have been destroyed because schools do not maintain those beyond the required time (takes up too much space and storage is expensive - I was a Financial Aid administrator for 13 years and am conversant with the regulations regarding this) and he's already released his degrees. There's little question about what Magna cum Laude means.

His medical records are about as complete as McCain's, page for page - there is a letter from his doctor explaining that he is in good health and has not been treated for anything worse than an upper respiratory infection, a skin rash and (something else I can't recall but "ingrown toenail" comes to mind.)

Tiffikat

10-25-2008, 04:02 PM

maggie965

10-25-2008, 05:03 PM

Some new info just popped up with some proof. What do you think??

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=72656

Yet another week article "proving" that he is not a citizen. I truly believe that the only way it will be proven is if his mother is raised from the dead, he climbs back into the womb and is literally born again.

And also, what makes this article any more proof than the many that had already been shared with his birth certificate and/or proof of citizenship which people STILL refuse to believe???

Inkspots

10-25-2008, 05:25 PM

I cannot believe this is still being questioned. I really cannot. I mean honestly IF Barack Obama were not eligible to be President I am quite certain that he would not have made it this far running. Hillary would have brought it up, the DNC would not have chosen him, and McCain/Palin would be ALL over it because they are in desperate need of something.

I really feel like this is reaching. Beyond that I've shown evidence of the bias of the source used with the supposed proof before on another thread. I'm not going to repost it but you can search it out if you want. I truly am so ridiculously sick of these rumors.

Oh so true. I would think that I some point in this process, he was asked for his passport, birth certificate, whatever. I too have a child who was not born in the US and doesn't have a birth certificate. He has a record of birth abroad, just as Nzingha's children have. He is a NATURAL BORN citizen not a "naturalized" one. I just can't see the FBI running in the night before the election yelling that they've made a mistake and found he isnt' qualified.

LindsaysMom

10-25-2008, 05:39 PM

I too have a child who was not born in the US and doesn't have a birth certificate. He has a record of birth abroad, just as Nzingha's children have. He is a NATURAL BORN citizen not a "naturalized" one.

I can vouch for that. My husband has the same experience. He was born in Spain while his dad was stationed there with the Navy. My husband does not have a US birth certificate; however, he does have a certificate issued by the state department certifying his birth.
My husband was also a citizen of Spain until he turned 18. Although he never actively pursued being a Spanish citizen, he did have that option. It was given to him like children born in the US are US citizen.

Gina.Maria

10-25-2008, 10:19 PM

No the way it states, his mother gave birth in Kenya because she was too far along and it was recommended she did not travel. After she gave birth, she flew to Hawaii and registered him there. His grandmother, half brother and sister even stated that he was born in Kenya. I haven't seen the substantial proof yet, but it makes me wonder a little.

Palin herself supposedly traveled on a commercial flight while leaking amniotic fluid, then drove some ungodly distance to her preferred hospital so that she could give birth in some backwater town in Alaska. That's part of her mythology - I mean story.

LindsaysMom

10-27-2008, 08:51 AM

Palin herself supposedly traveled on a commercial flight while leaking amniotic fluid, then drove some ungodly distance to her preferred hospital so that she could give birth in some backwater town in Alaska. That's part of her mythology - I mean story.

How is this relevant?

While his birth right is to be american citizen (because of his mother's nationality) I find it ineresting that there is such little proof that he was actually born on american soil. How come there are stories he was born at two different hospitals, Kapiolani Hospital and Queens Hospital, and neither can produce concrete evidence as in medical charts, etc. How come his family members claim he was born in a place different than what he claims? I find this all very mysterious. My mother is older than Obama yet HER birth can be traced to a particular place from the moment my grandmother stepped into the hospital. How come this is not possible in the case of Obama?

Theresa Hernandez

10-27-2008, 09:09 AM

Some new info just popped up with some proof. What do you think??

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=72656

This says it was posted on August 17. How is that new info? It seems like the same info that's been bouncing around for awhile.

Again, it's completely irrelevant though. The constitution only states that he be a natural-born citizen. He meets that requirement under the 14th amendment of the constitution because his mother was a US citizen.

I'm not even sure why this is an issue. If he lived in Indonesia as a child, is this an issue for anyone? Who cares if his stepfather adopted him? Who cares what his father wrote on his school papers as his name in a foreign country? The culture could have been such that if his stepson had a different last name, it could have been more difficult for the father or the child. It feels like enormous mountains are attempted to be created over minor anthills.

I'm probably missing something really obvious, but I don't really understand the significance of all this.

ayaandjudah

10-27-2008, 09:10 AM

Thanks so much for this. It was informative and really well written. May I ask how long you have been in SA? Do you plan to stay there?I usually don't post on these threds, just read them but I think I can help sort some of this out. As I'm an American Muslim living in Saudi Arabia and gave birth to two children here.

1. If your child is born abroud you have to get a born abroud birth certificate from the US embassy in that country. You are NOT issued a state birth certificate that you are a resident of. And you wouldn't be able to obtain one if you tried.

2. The rules of her having to be in the US for a certain period of time ONLY relates to those who were NOT BORN THERE. I just went through this whole confusing part of the paper work registering my fifth child born in March here. Of course I filled out a bunch of stuff to prove we were in the US during certain years which I never had to. Since his mother was born in the US and held a US passport she could pass that citizenship onto her child no issues even if the father is not a US citizen.

Now my last duaghter born here in Saudi may not be able to pass on her citizenship if she marries a non US citizen unless she resides in the US for a certain period of time as was stated in this thread (also keep in mind these rules change from time to time I don't know what they were 30 years ago as this wasn't an issue for many of the American women I know married to Saudis who have daughters my age)

3. Mothers travel full term in order to give birth in their respective countries it isn't uncommon among us expacts. Drs will fudge records saying we are w/in the time as long as there are no medical conditions to worry about. I have no doubts his mom would travel that late in her pregnancy because it is so common.

4. For most Muslim countries for a woman to remarry a man and bring along her child/ren into her new husbands home it isn't easy. Many think if she remarries she should give her children to their father so in order to avoid those problems it could very well have been that the Indonesian husband had to claim the child as his on various records. of course we aren't talking the most modern of record keeping in indonesia today let alone thirty years ago.

Just to give you an example of how severe this issue is, an Indonesian working here in Saudi who may get deported from the country for whateer reason and who would usualy have a two year block before they could legally return to work in the country simply go home, change their names on a new passoport and are back within several months. This is common practice in several countries and is a problem for all the GCC states that depend on foriegn workers.

Now I have no problem, because I know how things work it is the same here, that the father claimed Barak as his own son, and even a Muslim in order to get him into school. It would have been much easier, and probably his only option.

Now if his stepfather did claim him as his own in order to avoid any hassle he would HAVE TO PUT MUSLIM as the religion or be in trouble w/ the officials. NO child can be accepted as anything but a Muslim if their father is a Muslim. I know American women who are Christians married to Saudis and don't raise their children Muslim but on EVERY SINGLE DOCUMENT it is stated they are Muslim or there will be huge legal troubles.

I do recall seeing interviews with some of the school staff in Indonesia that remembered Barak and they were clear he was Christian. You might be able to dig up those interviews.

I should also note that a child born overseas is a NATURAL citizen of the united states if their mother or parents are US citizens. My two children born in Saudi Arabia are NATURAL citizens. As that is the citizenship they are born with. One might have to challenge a stronger definition to what a natural citizen is because so many expatriates have children in other parts of the world to assume their children can't run for president some day because their parents accepted employment in another country is rediculous, at least to me.

One last thing I'll point out three of my children were born in the US all of which I have passports for with their live birth documents. I do think what one requires depends on the state, or who is sitting behind the desk.

strangejen

10-27-2008, 09:14 AM

The constitution only states that he be a natural-born citizen. He meets that requirement under the 14th amendment of the constitution because his mother was a US citizen.

I'm not even sure why this is an issue. If he lived in Indonesia as a child, is this an issue for anyone? Who cares if his stepfather adopted him? Who cares what his father wrote on his school papers as his name in a foreign country? The culture could have been such that if his stepson had a different last name, it could have been more difficult for the father or the child. It feels like enormous mountains are attempted to be created over minor anthills.

I'm probably missing something really obvious, but I don't really understand the significance of all this.

I agree, Theresa.

Also, we're talking about him living abroad when he was in elementary school. How much in control of YOUR life were you while you were in elementary school? Did you make decisions about where you would live, who your parent married, what church you were taken to, etc?

Theresa Hernandez

10-27-2008, 09:18 AM

I agree, Theresa.

Also, we're talking about him living abroad when he was in elementary school. How much in control of YOUR life were you while you were in elementary school? Did you make decisions about where you would live, who your parent married, what church you were taken to, etc?

Heck, I had no control over my life as a teenager. My parents uprooted me and moved me 2,000 miles away from my boyfriend and all my friends when I was 15. I was a bitter, bitter teen with a serious attitude problem for 2 years. But I had no control; no input, and not a dang thing I could do about it. Hence the attitude...

LindsaysMom

10-27-2008, 09:19 AM

Also, we're talking about him living abroad when he was in elementary school. How much in control of YOUR life were you while you were in elementary school? Did you make decisions about where you would live, who your parent married, what church you were taken to, etc?

If you want to use this argument then everybody everywhere could be eligible to be president because no child anywhere in the world has control over where he or she is born.

Schwarzenegger for President! :yahoo

Theresa Hernandez

10-27-2008, 09:22 AM

If you want to use this argument then everybody everywhere could be eligible to be president because no child anywhere in the world has control over where he or she is born.

Schwarzenegger for President! :yahoo

No, that's not what she's saying at all. Da Ahnold wasn't born to a US citizen. She's merely talking about a US citizen who happened to be living abroad as a child.

But that said, I'd have no serious issues with a Presidenator. He's my favorite republican these days... well, except for my husband who will always be my most favorite republican :-)

strangejen

10-27-2008, 09:22 AM

If you want to use this argument then everybody everywhere could be eligible to be president because no child anywhere in the world has control over where he or she is born.

ha ha ha!!! no, but if we're questioning his citizenship, his mom was a citizen, thus HE was a citizen, no matter WHERE he was born, no matter where he lived as a child. It's not like he went through some naturalization process to become an Indonesian (sp) citizen or made some declaration of his allegiance at 10 years old.

it's a moo point. you know, like a cow's opinion. it doesn't matter. it's moo.

(sorry, a little Friends humor there.)

Tiffikat

10-27-2008, 09:22 AM

I don't think that is what Jen was saying at all. Honestly I do not believe there is any doubt that Obama is a natural born U.S. Citizen.

Theresa Hernandez

10-27-2008, 09:24 AM

I don't think that is what Jen was saying at all. Honestly I do not believe there is any doubt that Obama is a natural born U.S. Citizen.

Correct. The lawsuit regarding this was thrown out on Friday. So it's a done deal.

And Jen... I MISS Friends! That show made me laugh out loud every week!

ayaandjudah

10-27-2008, 09:25 AM

it's a moo point. you know, like a cow's opinion. it doesn't matter. it's moo.

(sorry, a little Friends humor there.)

Oh man I just guffawed at my desk, we use that line frequently.

You are so right. My parents could have divorced, my mother remarried, m y new stepdad could have taken me to china and listed me as his and as a shintoist but I'd still be American.

The fear mongering about this man needs to stop. Rovian politics are old. We have lived under the veil of fear for the past 8 years. I find it interesting that McCain is now employing those he condemned to hell in 2000......he should know better.

LindsaysMom

10-27-2008, 09:25 AM

ha ha ha!!! no, but if we're questioning his citizenship, his mom was a citizen, thus HE was a citizen, no matter WHERE he was born, no matter where he lived as a child. It's not like he went through some naturalization process to become an Indonesian (sp) citizen or made some declaration of his allegiance at 10 years old.

it's a moo point. you know, like a cow's opinion. it doesn't matter. it's moo.

(sorry, a little Friends humor there.)

Actually, his school records from Indonesia show that he was adopted by his step-father. So, in a way, he DID go through a naturalization process in Indonesia. Of course he is totally innocent of all this because he was just a child and had no controll over his life at this time.

Tiffikat

10-27-2008, 09:26 AM

The fear mongering about this man needs to stop. Rovian politics are old. We have lived under the veil of fear for the past 8 years. I find it interesting that McCain is now employing those he condemned to hell in 2000......he should know better.

I am sick of the fear mongering.

Theresa Hernandez

10-27-2008, 09:27 AM

Actually, his school records from Indonesia show that he was adopted by his step-father. So, in a way, he DID go through a naturalization process in Indonesia. Of course he is totally innocent of all this because he was just a child and had no controll over his life at this time.

Even if this were true, according to OUR constitution, not Indonesia's, he's STILL a natural born citizen... Again, not seeing how this is relevant.

strangejen

10-27-2008, 09:27 AM

So, in a way, he DID go through a naturalization process in Indonesia.

being adopted by someone is different than, say, studying for a test, raising your right hand, and swearing allegiance to a new country. HE didn't do anything to be adopted. That's something that HAPPENS to you.

LindsaysMom

10-27-2008, 09:28 AM

being adopted by someone is different than, say, studying for a test, raising your right hand, and swearing allegiance to a new country. HE didn't do anything to be adopted. That's something that HAPPENS to you.

what I said :shrug

strangejen

10-27-2008, 09:31 AM

what I said :shrug

yes, but I had to clarify. :) just in case.

Theresa Hernandez

10-27-2008, 09:32 AM

what I said :shrug

Oh, sorry. I guess I misunderstood. I thought you were trying to show how this qualified Schwarzenegger to be president. Oops... my apologies.

Charlene

10-27-2008, 09:36 AM

I am sick of the fear mongering.

Me too :(

Scorpiosue1102

10-27-2008, 09:38 AM

I believe the whole pregnancy issue about Palin was brought up because that's just as non-sensical as the rumor that Obama's mother hopped on a plane to Kenya to give birth.

I know it's been mentioned about him going to a Muslim school in Indonesia (shock horror), but the private school he went to in Hawaii he had to go to chapel once every six days. Why is that not mentioned?:shrug

Gina.Maria

10-27-2008, 10:11 AM

How is this relevant?

While his birth right is to be american citizen (because of his mother's nationality) I find it ineresting that there is such little proof that he was actually born on american soil. How come there are stories he was born at two different hospitals, Kapiolani Hospital and Queens Hospital, and neither can produce concrete evidence as in medical charts, etc. How come his family members claim he was born in a place different than what he claims? I find this all very mysterious. My mother is older than Obama yet HER birth can be traced to a particular place from the moment my grandmother stepped into the hospital. How come this is not possible in the case of Obama?

It's relevant to the fact that a previous poster suggested that his mother would not have been able to fly from Kenya to Hawaii late in her pregnancy to give birth at home. As has been stated, since then, many women can and do travel later-term in order to give birth at home.

Try to find my birth records. I was born in California in 1966 but the hospital was subsequently moved and no records currently exist. Things happen.

Also, please provide data proving that his family states that he was born elsewhere. At this point, it's innuendo and rumor. And I'd like to see your explanation for the birth certificate from Hawaii. Are you suggesting it was forged?

Pixel Gypsy

10-27-2008, 11:58 AM

I'm no big Obama fan, but my 36 y.o. SIL can't get a copy of her original birth certificate because the hospital she was born in burned down, and that was before any sort of electronic record keeping was utilized. All she has is the birth certificate that was issued when she was adopted by her now legal father (and my MIL isn't giving up any info about her biological father). So it's completely possible that original birth records can cease to exist for some people while still being able to traced for older people. Not to mention that she was legally adopted at a time that any paperwork concerning the process is sealed, even to her. I think the law on that changed the year after she was adopted by my FIL.

I personally have two conflicting birth certificates due to being adopted by my mom's second husband in 1987. I have the certificate issued in the hospital when I was actually born, listing my biological father and I have my now legally precident (sp?) certificate issued in '87 with my "new" dad's information. Birth records can be dodgy, I think.

I doubt Obama would have gotten this far if they weren't able to substantiate his citizenship. Just my .02 :shrug