Immigration-

[txmusicmom]

What do you think about illegal immigrants?

Living in a border state, this is a very important issue for me.

[Hollie]

Isn't there another thread that discusses this issue? I really thought I remember seeing a pretty in-depth discussion about it.

[kjbstevens]

Hard one... They are humans, but we have laws. I think prevention is the main key from now one, but really if they want to pay taxes just let them work for citizenship like anyone else if they really want to be here. Don't just make it automatic or punish them for coming forward. If they aren't hiding they won't be in fear and will make grumpy people that don't like tax drains happy too. Deportation isn't feasible anymore. Criminals out, workers and families come join in our messed up little country but really try to learn English and I'll try to learn some Spanish to help the new people out. Just in the end schools and business should be English because they cater to other nationalities that all sort of use it more universally than Spanish. It's not to punish them. It's just a more worldwide thing. This is where I've ended up on it so far after much discussion around.

[Gina.Maria]

I think we got into it in a health-care thread when we first started our discussions. Honestly, I don't know what to do about immigration except finally change the quotas to reflect our current global reality.

[txmusicmom]

Interesting enough- Mexico's immigration policies are MUCH stricter than US-- kinda ironic.

Love the people--but we do need them to come over legally- even if they are migrant workers.

[OrianaVianey]

Yes, we discuss that in another thread here
http://www.digishoptalk.com/boards/showthread.php?t=150505

[OrianaVianey]

Interesting enough- Mexico's immigration policies are MUCH stricter than US-- kinda ironic.

Love the people--but we do need them to come over legally- even if they are migrant workers.

Actually the immigration policy of Mexico is a treaty with US in an attempt to stop the immigration, because Mexicans are not the only ones jumping the Rio Grande

[mama_pajama]

I think our government needs to put pressure on the Mexican government to make living conditions better for people in Mexico. If you ask new Mexican immigrants if they would go back to Mexico if the conditions there improved, a great majority of them would say yes. They love it there, but they can't make a living and they don't feel safe. If their government would make a proper effort to cut down on the corruption that makes it impossible for many people to earn a living wage, and made more than a token effort to stamp out violence, people wouldn't feel that they have to come here. And I don't think we would necessarily have to put much pressure on the government, Mexico really doesn't want to make an enemy of the US. With our assistance, they could make a real improvement.

[txmusicmom]

I think our government needs to put pressure on the Mexican government to make living conditions better for people in Mexico. If you ask new Mexican immigrants if they would go back to Mexico if the conditions there improved, a great majority of them would say yes. They love it there, but they can't make a living and they don't feel safe. If their government would make a proper effort to cut down on the corruption that makes it impossible for many people to earn a living wage, and made more than a token effort to stamp out violence, people wouldn't feel that they have to come here. And I don't think we would necessarily have to put much pressure on the government, Mexico really doesn't want to make an enemy of the US. With our assistance, they could make a real improvement.

:clap :clap :clap

YEs they do love their country............

[Aimeemomof2]

I don't get into many political threads.....

But, this one is my "hot button"....so here is my 2 cents...lol

My son was a legal immigrant, brought into this country through adoption. My husband and I are US Citizens by birth. Immigration law in the US is completely conflicting and confusing. I am a native English speaker, and relatively well-educated. Trying to navigate the mess of our system was almost impossible!! I cannot imagine how difficult it must be for someone who speaks English as a 2nd language.

In my son's case, he was given US citizenship through his status as our adopted son. (after court finalization) However, completing all of the various forms to do this was a nightmare. (and expensive)

Do you know that he had a US passport, but at that time he was not technically a US Citizen? A passport is documentation of US citizenship, but do to convoluted laws, he was not truly a citizen at that time. We had obtained a US passport with a Ohio Birth Certificate (issued at time of adoption...reading as if he was physically born to me in Korea). The passport helped us to obtain his Certificate of Citizenship. That is the document that finally gave him citizenship.

Different countries have a different relationship with our government, and children adopted from different places enter the country in various "stages of citizenship". Some enter as citizens (I believe these folks finalize in country), Elijah entered the US on an IR4 Visa, so he was not automatically a citizen.

What does this have to do with Mexican Immigrants? (this seems to be everyone's "issue" with immigration...those coming into America through this particular border) I cannot imagine how difficult it would be for them to understand and immigrate legally. The process needs to be simplified and each government agency needs be be answering to the same philosophy of immigration.

I don't know much about how "illegals" effect the economy, or our health care system, or anything else. I just know that my own personal experience with Immigration left me with a "bad taste" in my mouth. Even if you believe that immigration should be limited or stopped....the laws need to be consistent. Immigration law is a mess.

~~~Off topic a little bit, there is an ad on TV about how Obama would let illegal immigrants have driver's licenses...My thought is....SO WHAT? A driver's license has never been proof of citizenship. Just like having a Social Security number is not proof of citizenship either.

[lunafaerie]

Well first of all, I usually don't call them illegal because it offends me, I prefer the term undocumented workers, but that's just me.

We need to fix the problem, but it's not a deal breaker either way for Obama and McCain. Both have some pretty good ideas about immigration reform.

[tsaria]

What do you think about illegal immigrants?


I think immigrants are fine, 'legal' or not. I dislike that our immigration policies make it so difficult for people to come here 'legally'. And really sometimes it makes me want to scream. I wish there was no immigration policy sometimes.

I also live in a border state & in an area with a high concentration of immigrants.

[Inkspots]

What does this have to do with Mexican Immigrants? (this seems to be everyone's "issue" with immigration...those coming into America through this particular border) I cannot imagine how difficult it would be for them to understand and immigrate legally. The process needs to be simplified and each government agency needs be be answering to the same philosophy of immigration.

I don't know much about how "illegals" effect the economy, or our health care system, or anything else. I just know that my own personal experience with Immigration left me with a "bad taste" in my mouth. Even if you believe that immigration should be limited or stopped....the laws need to be consistent. Immigration law is a mess.

You are not alone! My family is full of immigrants--my parents, grandparents, cousins. My parents came when they were young and back in the 50s so I don't think it was as complicated then. My cousin on the otherhand, came to join the Marine Corps, always been a dream of his to be a US Marine. The process was impossible. One of those, you needed to work to apply, but you had to apply to get a job. He and my dad were also more than frustrated actually going to immigration in that no one there spoke English! (At least English they were able to understand.) Not all immigrants are foreign speakers. I think it took him nearly two years to finally be able to get into the Corps, that was with their help as well. Immigration needs to be reformed, how, I'm not sure. I don't agree with all the illegal immigration, but I do have sympathy when it's told for them to just go about and do it the legal way.

[mama_pajama]

I think immigrants are fine, 'legal' or not. I dislike that our immigration policies make it so difficult for people to come here 'legally'. And really sometimes it makes me want to scream. I wish there was no immigration policy sometimes.

I also live in a border state & in an area with a high concentration of immigrants.

I agree 100%. I have no problem with immigrants, what I have a problem with is people being forced into leaving the country they love in order to feed their families, especially when we're in a great position to help them.

[Theresa Hernandez]

My feelings on this are that people risk their lives, and in many cases, lose them, trying to come to the US to send money back home. They do this because they have no hope in Mexico. They are so poor that their families may starve to death. As a mother, I can totally understand why someone would risk their lives to do whatever they could to save their kids.

We have so many resources in this country and they have so few by comparison.

What bothers me is that Mexican immigrants who are trying to provide the basics for life to their families are scorned, but Cubans are welcomed with open arms.

I understand it's political, but the people involved are just as innocent. They aren't more guilty because they come from Mexico and not Cuba.

That said, I would like to see the borders secured for obvious security reasons, but I do think the compassionate, right, Christian thing to do is grant those who have been here for a long time, who have worked hard and contributed to society, be allowed to stay. I believe with all my heart that it is absolutely the right thing.

Yes, they broke the law, but so has anyone who sort of coasted through a stop sign or driven 75 MPH on the freeway, or 30 MPH in a 25 MPH zone. I don't think destroying families is the right thing to do to illegal immigrants any more than i'd like to see families ripped apart because someone was speeding on the freeway and no one was hurt as a result.

[OrianaVianey]

I think our government needs to put pressure on the Mexican government to make living conditions better for people in Mexico. If you ask new Mexican immigrants if they would go back to Mexico if the conditions there improved, a great majority of them would say yes. They love it there, but they can't make a living and they don't feel safe. If their government would make a proper effort to cut down on the corruption that makes it impossible for many people to earn a living wage, and made more than a token effort to stamp out violence, people wouldn't feel that they have to come here. And I don't think we would necessarily have to put much pressure on the government, Mexico really doesn't want to make an enemy of the US. With our assistance, they could make a real improvement.

Oh Steph this sound great, but pigs can't fly... LOL

Besides, Mexico is not the only problem... there are 2 million ppl from El Salvador (where I live) living in the US and the money they send back is 10% of the Gross Domestic Product (Producto Interno Bruto in Spanish). And not to mention Nicaragua, Honduras, Colombia, Venezuela, etc.

I don't approve illegal immigration, and to be honest I think US is a great place to visit but not to live. But I do agree that immigration laws must be reformed in more than one way so ppl who are hard workers can have the benefits that come with their job. I think is an attitude issue... bureaucracy is everywhere... but since we are talking about human life, then they should be treated like that

[kjbstevens]

Well they don't really do the greatest job treating our poorest well so it's hard for them to treat many others that aren't even citizens either. Gov't services or any help isn't exactly made to make anyone feel like they are human especially the waiting games involved. I actually find McCain's plan more opening and easier for immigrants because I also agree with Theresa about the Cubans. Why should they have to jump through hoops and pay fines when other groups dont? The immigration debate was one of the ones conservatives really do not like McCain on because he keys the word "compassionate" in with it. It's another huge example of our gov't picking and chosing who to give equal status too. Making immigrants jump through hoops and do extra steps or pay fines others don't is not equality.

Here is a side by side for them.
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/06/16/20080616elex-immigrationgrid0616.html

[mama_pajama]

Oh Steph this sound great, but pigs can't fly... LOL

Besides, Mexico is not the only problem... there are 2 million ppl from El Salvador (where I live) living in the US and the money they send back is 10% of the Gross Domestic Product (Producto Interno Bruto in Spanish). And not to mention Nicaragua, Honduras, Colombia, Venezuela, etc.


LOL, yeah Bush promised something along the lines of working with the Mexican government to improve living conditions, but it kind of got forgotten after he was elected.

I do have to admit that when I hear 'immigration' I automatically think about Mexico. Where I live, that's what we see.

[Gina.Maria]

Well, in defense of those who immediately think "Mexico" it is the most common point of entry even for those coming from South America.

[kjbstevens]

So what do you all think of fines or backpayment of taxes or guest worker permits or any of the other stuff they have mentioned as far as their policies?

[lunafaerie]

So what do you all think of fines or backpayment of taxes or guest worker permits or any of the other stuff they have mentioned as far as their policies?

Honestly, I think it would create a bureaucratic nightmare to keep track of all that stuff. We have a very huge problem on our hands.

[scribler]

What bothers me is that Mexican immigrants who are trying to provide the basics for life to their families are scorned, but Cubans are welcomed with open arms.

You have hit on an issue that has bothered me since I moved to Florida. It bothers me greatly that if a Cuban sets foot on dry ground within the United States they are free to stay, but this applies to no one else. Not Haitians, not people from Central or South America, no one. I am not asking that we stop accepting the Cubans. I just ask that we be fair about it.

So what do you all think of fines or backpayment of taxes or guest worker permits or any of the other stuff they have mentioned as far as their policies?

I feel they both have immigration plans that are far better than anything being offered currently. I am not sure the backpayment of taxes is realistic, unless we are willing to set up a pament plan, but at least they both tout plans that aren't "lock up the borders and kick them all out," which is not humane, fair or realistic.

I really like Obama's plan to keep families together. I just think that is a great idea. Actually, I think I really do prefer his plan. But I don't think it's that much different than McCain's. I can accept either one without a lot of complaint.

This is such a key issue for me. In fact, if one of the anti-immigration candidates were on the ticket, there is a good chance I would be voting for Obama this time.

If anyone is not aware of their immigration stances. You can find them here.

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/68db8157-d301-4e22-baf7-a70dd8416efa.htm

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/immigration/

(Okay, Obama's web people are much better than McCain's. That McCain URL is ridiculous. (Luckily, I am not voting for their web people. lol))

[lunafaerie]

You have hit on an issue that has bothered me since I moved to Florida. It bothers me greatly that if a Cuban sets foot on dry ground within the United States they are free to stay, but this applies to no one else. Not Haitians, not people from Central or South America, no one. I am not asking that we stop accepting the Cubans. I just ask that we be fair about it.



I feel they both have immigration plans that are far better than anything being offered currently. I am not sure the backpayment of taxes is realistic, unless we are willing to set up a pament plan, but at least they both tout plans that aren't "lock up the borders and kick them all out," which is not humane, fair or realistic.

I really like Obama's plan to keep families together. I just think that is a great idea. Actually, I think I really do prefer his plan. But I don't think it's that much different than McCain's. I can accept either one without a lot of complaint.

This is such a key issue for me. In fact, if one of the anti-immigration candidates were on the ticket, there is a good chance I would be voting for Obama this time.

If anyone is not aware of their immigration stances. You can find them here.

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/68db8157-d301-4e22-baf7-a70dd8416efa.htm

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/immigration/

(Okay, Obama's web people are much better than McCain's. That McCain URL is ridiculous. (Luckily, I am not voting for their web people. lol))

What you said, except I am voting for Obama, ;)

[kjbstevens]

I had a side by side on the page earlier. Immigration was one of the biggest reasons conservatives did not want McCain is because he was so "soft" in it compared to their stances. I don't think at this point doing fines and prerequistes other than already being here and not having a criminal record are better to just find a way to integrate. All of that will just end up with bigger gov't and more waste. I do like the guest worker stuff better then them just having to duck under the radar though. I don't think he idea of paying fines and all that is equal at all for them just because the Cubans come from communism. It's not the 1960s anymore.

[4noisyboys]

I honestly agree with most of both of their plans. I hope that whoever wins, that it will be implemented. Being that I am near the border in a border state, this is something that I'm concerned about. I have to be honest...our family's business hires a lot of undocumented workers. Of course they have all the proper documentation, but it is all fake.

[Tiffikat]

My feelings on this are that people risk their lives, and in many cases, lose them, trying to come to the US to send money back home. They do this because they have no hope in Mexico. They are so poor that their families may starve to death. As a mother, I can totally understand why someone would risk their lives to do whatever they could to save their kids.

We have so many resources in this country and they have so few by comparison.

What bothers me is that Mexican immigrants who are trying to provide the basics for life to their families are scorned, but Cubans are welcomed with open arms.

I understand it's political, but the people involved are just as innocent. They aren't more guilty because they come from Mexico and not Cuba.

That said, I would like to see the borders secured for obvious security reasons, but I do think the compassionate, right, Christian thing to do is grant those who have been here for a long time, who have worked hard and contributed to society, be allowed to stay. I believe with all my heart that it is absolutely the right thing.

Yes, they broke the law, but so has anyone who sort of coasted through a stop sign or driven 75 MPH on the freeway, or 30 MPH in a 25 MPH zone. I don't think destroying families is the right thing to do to illegal immigrants any more than i'd like to see families ripped apart because someone was speeding on the freeway and no one was hurt as a result.


This sums up my thoughts pretty well.