TSA

[tammy1999]

OK, I had to bring this up and I wanted to know what all you guys thought about all this.

I don't travel very much by air and thats because the security is so much of a headache anymore and not worth it. But now with the new full body scanners and the pat downs, which I have no problem going through the scanner since I don't travel that much and don't have to worry about extra radioactivity from it. I would be concerned if I traveled a lot. But Orlando airport is opting out of this process and is hiring the private sector to take over and since I fly out of Orlando, won't have to worry about it there.

But, if I had to stand there and watch my aging mom have some one slide their hands over her body like I have seen in pictures and videos, that would really disturb me.

I heard a woman on the radio the other day say she was going to ask for a mammogram while going through the scanner.

[Pachimac]

I am of two sides of this. I appreciate all the efforts they are going through to keep us safe as a nation. I don't like the new scanners, but if it's proved that they can and do keep us safe, I would MUCH RATHER go through the scanner than the "enhanced" pat down.

I travel so rarely that any emissions it gives off will be negligible in the scheme of things.

LOL at the Mammogram!!!

[Microferk ~ Miki Ferkul]

The scanners are not safe, IMHO. There are reports of deleterious effects on the skin, not to mention the violation of privacy. The Enhanced Patdwons are no more than legally sanctioned groping sessions.
Read this: http://johnnyedge.blogspot.com/2010/...y-between.html
I am glad I do not need to fly. Whereas I could probably grit my teeth and bear the groping, there is noway in HELL they would touch my children in that manner.
This is really disturbing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TCHS...layer_embedded

The Patriot Act was just a warm up.

BTW- what country has the best track record with airport security and does not employ these methods?

Israel.

[Pachimac]

Originally Posted by Microferk ~ Miki Ferkul

The scanners are not safe, IMHO. There are reports of deleterious effects on the skin, not to mention the violation of privacy. The Enhanced Patdwons are no more than legally sanctioned groping sessions.
Read this: <Insert title here>: TSA encounter at SAN
I am glad I do not need to fly. Whereas I could probably grit my teeth and bear the groping, there is noway in HELL they would touch my children in that manner.
This is really disturbing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TCHS...layer_embedded

The Patriot Act was just a warm up.

BTW- what country has the best track record with airport security and does not employ these methods?

Israel.

Ok - I'm intrigued. How do they do it in Israel?

[Microferk ~ Miki Ferkul]

Heavy on profiling- not just racial, but behavioral.

From wiki:

El Al Airlines is headquartered in Israel. The last hijacking occurred on July 23, 1969,[20] and no plane departing Ben Gurion Airport, just outside Tel Aviv, has ever been hijacked.[21]


As part of its focus on this so-called "human factor," Israeli security officers interrogate travelers using racial profiling, singling out those who appear to be Arab based on name or physical appearance.[24] Additionally, all passengers, even those who do not appear to be of Arab descent, are questioned as to why they are traveling to Israel, followed by several general questions about the trip in order to search for inconsistencies.[20] Although numerous civil rights groups have demanded an end to the profiling, Israel maintains that it is both effective and unavoidable. As stated by Ariel Merari, an Israeli terrorism expert, "it would be foolish not to use profiling when everyone knows that most terrorists come from certain ethnic groups. They are likely to be Muslim and young, and the potential threat justifies inconveniencing a certain ethnic group."[25]
Passengers leaving Israel are checked against a computerized list. The computers, maintained by the Israeli Ministry of Interior, are connected to the Israeli police and Interpol in order to catch suspects or others leaving the country illegally.[26]
Despite such tight security, an incident occurred on November 17, 2002 in which a man apparently slipped through airport security at Ben Gurion Airport with a pocketknife and attempted to storm the cockpit of El Al Flight 581 en route from Tel Aviv to Istanbul, Turkey. While no injuries were reported and the attacker was subdued by guards hidden among the passengers 15 minutes before the plane landed safely in Turkey, authorities did shut down Ben Gurion for some time after the attack to reassess the security situation and an investigation was opened to determine how the man, an Israeli Arab, managed to smuggle the knife past the airport security.[27]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_security


The "don't touch my junk!" affair (can't wait for the bumper sticker) stirred up national furor over invasive security procedures by the Transportation Security Administration. Airline passengers going through U.S. airports are now "full-body scanned" or subjected to new "aggressive patdown" procedures.





As part of the growing controversy many have noted that Israel, specifically El Al Airlines, maintains extremely high security - no hijackings since 1968 - without subjecting everyone to such measures. The Israeli system is held up as a more effective and practical alternative to TSA's methods. In particular, El Al's open use of profiling is often cited as something we should do here.
But the elements of the Israeli airport/airline security are far more involved than just profiling. According to El Al officials and numerous press reports, it is a very robust, multi-layered system that concentrates on human factors instead of technological solutions. Even before entering the perimeter of Ben Gurion airport outside Tel Aviv, cars are checked by security guards. License plates are scanned to see if they match known suspicious vehicles. Ben Gurion has 700 closed-circuit cameras, and just like in Las Vegas casinos, surveillance operators watch people as they enter and throughout the airport area.
There are multiple security filters and methods applied - many they don't talk about - before passengers get to screening. If an individual arouses suspicion, based on experience and knowledge of behavior, officials strike up a conversation to further assess.
The heart of the Israeli security approach is, indeed, profiling, but it's intelligently applied and multi-faceted. Hebrew speakers and Israeli citizens are in one tier, foreign non-Arab/non-Islamic persons in another, and anyone with a name, passport or appearance that indicates they're from an Arab or Islamic country gets the most attention. Screeners, or "selectors," are university educated, well paid, and thoroughly trained to ask probing questions and look for signs of stress or deceit. Luggage and passengers are also kept together until screening is complete.


Instead of just asking the U.S. standard "who packed your bag?" the Israeli questions are more detailed and varied. "Has anyone else ever used this bag? Where did they go? Are you traveling alone? Why were you talking to that person in line? What were you talking about?"




They also pay close attention to passport stamps. "Why did you visit this country? What was your business there?" Often, questions are repeated by other screeners to check for inconsistencies. If someone gets fidgety or shifts their weight, or if answers don't add up, the screening gets more intense. That's when the more intrusive methods are applied, when they're warranted, not randomly.
Granted, Ben Gurion and El Al are very tiny compared to the entire U.S. aviation system. Having such a robust system, with passengers showing up three hours before flight time can't be practically applied here. But parts of it can and already are at some U.S. airports. For example, at Boston's Logan International, state police troopers have implemented a "behavior pattern recognition" program, under tutelage of the former director of security at Ben Gurion.
Tad Trueblood has more than 20 years experience in the U.S. Air Force and national security community. He lives in Santa Clara.

Use Israel's air security approach | thespectrum.com | The Spectrum

[Pachimac]

Originally Posted by Microferk ~ Miki Ferkul

Heavy on profiling- not just racial, but behavioral.

From wiki:

El Al Airlines is headquartered in Israel. The last hijacking occurred on July 23, 1969,[20] and no plane departing Ben Gurion Airport, just outside Tel Aviv, has ever been hijacked.[21]

Yeah, some of that stuff would NEVER work here, but it seems to work for them, so there must be a benefit to it! Thank you for the information - I'm going to read your links you included as well right now.

[Microferk ~ Miki Ferkul]

Well, I don't think the sexual molestation and radiation scans that shows everyone's packages (not to mention the health risks) are "flying" very well here either. And rightly not. Both are violations of 4th Amendment Rights, and constitute pedophilia and/or child pornography when performed on minors.

Again:

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

[tammy1999]

Miki I had heard that Isreal had great security and done the way it should be and thanks for the article.

[hazelsmrf]

Originally Posted by Microferk ~ Miki Ferkul

And rightly not. Both are violations of 4th Amendment Rights, and constitute pedophilia and/or child pornography when performed on minors.

I am certainly not advocating for these ridiculous pat downs or see-through scanners, because if someone tried to pat down my 4 year old daughter I think I'd want to punch them in the face. And I think a scanner that is shown to cause cancer is also a horrible infringement on my rights. But I don't believe that just because a child is seen naked that constitues pedophilia or child pornography. A doctor isn't a pedophile for viewing his patients naked. If I let some other trusted adult bathe my daughter this also does not mean pedophila or child pornography. Naked does not = sex.

[Pachimac]

Originally Posted by hazelsmrf

I am certainly not advocating for these ridiculous pat downs or see-through scanners, because if someone tried to pat down my 4 year old daughter I think I'd want to punch them in the face. And I think a scanner that is shown to cause cancer is also a horrible infringement on my rights. But I don't believe that just because a child is seen naked that constitues pedophilia or child pornography. A doctor isn't a pedophile for viewing his patients naked. If I let some other trusted adult bathe my daughter this also does not mean pedophila or child pornography. Naked does not = sex.

Yes, this. ITA.